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<channel>
  <title>Green Options &#187; hybrid</title>
  <link>http://greenoptions.com/tag/hybrid</link>
  <description>Posts tagged 'hybrid'</description>
  <pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
  <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1</generator>
  <language>en</language>
  <item>
    <title>Toyota Prius to Get Solar Power</title>
    <link>http://gas2.org/2008/07/07/toyota-prius-to-get-solar-power/</link>
    <comments>http://gas2.org/2008/07/07/toyota-prius-to-get-solar-power/#comments</comments>
    <pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>Nick Chambers</dc:creator>
    
		<category><![CDATA[Hybrid-electric EVs]]></category>

    <guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/?p=678</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[<h3>Toyota&#8217;s next generation Prius, due out as early as next spring, will be outfitted with solar panels to help run the on-board electronics, according to a report from the <a title="Link to Nikkei home page. Access to articles is by subscription only." href="http://www.nni.nikkei.co.jp/" target="_blank">Nikkei newspaper</a>.</h3>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-679" style="vertical-align: top" src="http://gas2.org/files/2008/07/prius_badge.jpg" alt="Prius Badge" width="500" height="259" />Smaller start-up car companies, such as <a title="Gas 2.0 post about Think Ox" href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/23/thnk-ox-an-electric-car-with-style-and-smarts/" target="_self">Th!nk</a>, have plans for <a title="Gas 2.0 post about Think Ox" href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/23/thnk-ox-an-electric-car-with-style-and-smarts/" target="_self">solar power augmented cars on the books too</a>, but the incorporation of solar panels on the Prius would mark the first time a major car manufacturer has done such a thing with one of its models.</p>
<p><!--more-->Currently in its second generation, the third generation Prius has been widely anticipated for some time now. Due for a complete overhaul, the addition of solar panels to the Prius would corroborate the expectation of major changes in both style and function in the next generation model.</p>
<p>According to <a title="Marketwatch article about next generation Prius." href="http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/story.aspx?guid={A5960A1A-E176-4A08-952C-4BC4A0A69284}&amp;siteid=rss" target="_blank">Marketwatch</a>, the Nikkei reported that the solar panels would provide a portion of the two to five kilowatts needed to power the air conditioning unit. The solar panels would be supplied by <a title="Kyocera global home page" href="http://global.kyocera.com/" target="_blank">Kyocera</a>.</p>
<p>Toyota plans to pump up production of the Prius next year to 450,000 units. This would represent a 60% increase in production over 2007 numbers, Marketwatch also reported.</p>
<p>Although that sounds promising, Toyota has kind of dropped the ball this year by failing to meet demand for the popular hybrid and causing a worldwide Prius shortage. Blaming a <a title="Mercury news article about shortage of Priusi" href="http://www.mercurynews.com/greenenergy/ci_9602500?nclick_check=1&amp;forced=true" target="_blank">lack of battery production capacity</a>, Toyota has promised to open another battery facility soon.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s hope they can actually meet demand for the Prius next year, especially if they plan on including such excellent and logical features as solar powered on-board electronics.</p>
<h3>Posts Related to Hybrid Electric Vehicles:</h3>
<ul>
<li><a title="Think Hybrid Cars are Too Expensive?" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/06/04/low-impact-living-think-hybrid-cars-are-too-expensive/">Low Impact Living: Think Hybrid Cars are Too Expensive?</a></li>
<li><a title="Prius is Most Searched New Car on Cars.com" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/06/12/first-time-ever-prius-is-most-searched-new-car-on-carscom/">First Time Ever: Prius is Most Searched New Car on Cars.com</a></li>
<li><a title="Permanent Link to Paul McCartney’s Lexus Hybrid Gets 4 MPG" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/05/23/paul-mccartney%e2%80%99s-lexus-hybrid-gets-4-mpg/">Paul McCartney’s Lexus Hybrid Gets 4 MPG</a></li>
<li><a title="Permanent Link to Sorry Folks, VW Diesel Electric Hybrid Not Coming to US" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/05/12/sorry-folks-vw-diesel-electric-hybrid-not-coming-to-us/">Sorry Folks, VW Diesel Electric Hybrid Not Coming to US</a></li>
<li><a title="Permanent Link to Are Plug-Ins and Electric Cars A Health Hazard?" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/04/29/do-plug-ins-and-electric-cars-present-a-health-hazard-due-to-electromagnetic-fields-serbian-born-nicholas-tesla-might-have-known/">Are Plug-Ins and Electric Cars A Health Hazard?</a></li>
</ul>
<p><a href="http://www.toyota.com/" target="_blank"></a></p>
]]></description>
    <content:encoded><![CDATA[Toyota's next generation Prius, due out as early as next spring, will be outfitted with solar panels to help run the on-board electronics, according to a report from the Nikkei newspaper [1].
Smaller start-up car companies, such as Th!nk [2], have plans for solar power augmented cars on the books too [3], but the incorporation of solar panels on the Prius would mark the first time a major car manufacturer has done such a thing with one of its models.

Currently in its second generation, the third generation Prius has been widely anticipated for some time now. Due for a complete overhaul, the addition of solar panels to the Prius would corroborate the expectation of major changes in both style and function in the next generation model.

According to Marketwatch [4], the Nikkei reported that the solar panels would provide a portion of the two to five kilowatts needed to power the air conditioning unit. The solar panels would be supplied by Kyocera [5].

Toyota plans to pump up production of the Prius next year to 450,000 units. This would represent a 60% increase in production over 2007 numbers, Marketwatch also reported.

Although that sounds promising, Toyota has kind of dropped the ball this year by failing to meet demand for the popular hybrid and causing a worldwide Prius shortage. Blaming a lack of battery production capacity [6], Toyota has promised to open another battery facility soon.

Let's hope they can actually meet demand for the Prius next year, especially if they plan on including such excellent and logical features as solar powered on-board electronics.
Posts Related to Hybrid Electric Vehicles:

	Low Impact Living: Think Hybrid Cars are Too Expensive? [7]
	First Time Ever: Prius is Most Searched New Car on Cars.com [8]
	Paul McCartney’s Lexus Hybrid Gets 4 MPG [9]
	Sorry Folks, VW Diesel Electric Hybrid Not Coming to US [10]
	Are Plug-Ins and Electric Cars A Health Hazard? [11]



[1] http://www.nni.nikkei.co.jp/
[2] http://gas2.org/2008/06/23/thnk-ox-an-electric-car-with-style-and-smarts/
[3] http://gas2.org/2008/06/23/thnk-ox-an-electric-car-with-style-and-smarts/
[4] http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/story.aspx?guid={A5960A1A-E176-4A08-952C-4BC4A0A69284}&#38;siteid=rss
[5] http://global.kyocera.com/
[6] http://www.mercurynews.com/greenenergy/ci_9602500?nclick_check=1&#38;forced=true
[7] http://gas2.org../2008/06/04/low-impact-living-think-hybrid-cars-are-too-expensive/
[8] http://gas2.org../2008/06/12/first-time-ever-prius-is-most-searched-new-car-on-carscom/
[9] http://gas2.org../2008/05/23/paul-mccartney%e2%80%99s-lexus-hybrid-gets-4-mpg/
[10] http://gas2.org../2008/05/12/sorry-folks-vw-diesel-electric-hybrid-not-coming-to-us/
[11] http://gas2.org../2008/04/29/do-plug-ins-and-electric-cars-present-a-health-hazard-due-to-electromagnetic-fields-serbian-born-nicholas-tesla-might-have-known/]]></content:encoded>
    <wfw:commentRss>http://gas2.org/2008/07/07/toyota-prius-to-get-solar-power/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
  </item>
  <item>
    <title>Who Might Win McCain&#8217;s Battery Competition? Part I: Firefly</title>
    <link>http://gas2.org/2008/07/01/who-might-win-mccains-battery-competition-part-i-firefly/</link>
    <comments>http://gas2.org/2008/07/01/who-might-win-mccains-battery-competition-part-i-firefly/#comments</comments>
    <pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>Nick Chambers</dc:creator>
    
		<category><![CDATA[Batteries]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Electric vehicles (EVs)]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Politics]]></category>

    <guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/?p=657</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-665" style="vertical-align: top" src="http://gas2.org/files/2008/07/firefly-mashup.jpg" alt="Firefly microcell foam next to classis lead plates" width="500" height="382" /><em></em></p>
<p><em>Editor&#8217;s note: This post is a lead-in story to the <a title="Gas 2.0 interview with Mil Ovan, SVP and Co-founder of Firefly Energy" href="http://gas2.org/2008/07/01/interview-with-mil-ovan-svp-and-co-founder-of-firefly-energy/" target="_blank">Gas 2.0 interview with Mil Ovan, Senior Vice President and Co-founder of Firefly Energy</a>. </em></p>
<p>Last week John McCain, the presumptive presidential nominee for the 2008 Republican ticket, <a title="Gas 2.0 post about McCain battery competition" href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/23/mccain-proposes-300-million-prize-to-developer-of-super-battery/" target="_blank">suggested that a $300 million government-sponsored competition</a> would be a good way to spur development of next generation battery technologies.</p>
<p>His comments <a title="Link to politicususa post" href="http://www.politicususa.com/en/Obama-Bounty" target="_blank">generated debate in the blogosphere</a> and around the United States. Meanwhile, Barack Obama, the presumptive presidential nominee for the Democratic ticket, <a title="Link to truck trend post" href="http://blogs.trucktrend.com/6261183/industry-news/obama-calls-mccains-300-million-battery-prize-a-gimmick/index.html" target="_blank">called McCain&#8217;s proposal a gimmick</a> suggesting that $300 million was not enough.</p>
<p>Regardless of my feelings about the proposed competition or the candidates themselves, it got me thinking about just who might win it if it were to become a reality. All that thinking led to this post, and, hopefully, to several others that will look at the most promising next generation battery technologies on the horizon.</p>
<p>This week I&#8217;ll start with <a title="Firefly Energy homepage" href="http://www.fireflyenergy.com/" target="_blank">Firefly Energy</a>.</p>
<p><!--more-->Founded in 2003, Firefly has been working on reinvigorating old-hat <a title="Wikipedia entry for lead-acid battery" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_acid_battery" target="_blank">lead-acid battery</a> technology in such a way that it would become brand new and cutting edge once again. On the surface, the concept may seem pretty dull, but digging into it we find that it presents a lot of promise.</p>
<p>Firefly&#8217;s innovation is that they&#8217;ve taken the heavy lead plates you&#8217;d find in a classic lead-acid battery and replaced them with a light carbon-graphite microcell foam that&#8217;s been impregnated with lead.</p>
<p>Key benefits of their first and second generation technology when compared to traditional lead-acid batteries include:</p>
<ul>
<li>up to 70% less lead</li>
<li>up to 50% reduction in weight and size</li>
<li>Much faster recharge and discharge capabilities</li>
<li>Much better cold weather performance</li>
<li>Increased lifetime and durability</li>
</ul>
<p>Two of the main problems associated with traditional lead-acid batteries are <a title="Firefly FAQ on corrosion" href="http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=55&amp;Itemid=85" target="_blank">corrosion</a> and <a title="Firefly FAQ on sulfation" href="http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=82&amp;Itemid=85" target="_blank">sulfation</a>. Together these are the lead-acid battery&#8217;s Achilles&#8217; heel and the typical reasons they fail. Firefly mitigates these problems by <a title="Firefly FAQ on advantages of microcell foam" href="http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=97&amp;Itemid=88" target="_blank">creating a balance between the amount of lead in the battery and the acid electrolyte that flows through the microcell foam</a>.</p>
<p>Firefly&#8217;s technology could make the lead-acid battery truly competitive with other advanced battery chemistries, such as <a title="Wikipedia entry for lithium-ion battery " href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion" target="_blank">lithium-ion</a>, but at a much more affordable price and in a safer package. At the same time, the technology would increase the durability and reliability of the lead-acid battery and address many of the environmental concerns associated with the industry.</p>
<p>Another key benefit of reinvigorating the production of lead-acid batteries in the United States is that it would be a domestic endeavor — meaning that the <a title="USGS Lead information PDF" href="http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/lead/lead_mcs05.pdf" target="_blank">US has lots of lead available (it&#8217;s the third largest producer behind China and Australia</a>; PDF), a robust system in place for <a title="EPA link on batteries" href="http://www.epa.gov/garbage/battery.htm" target="_blank">recycling lead from batteries</a>, and a healthy and capable domestic manufacturing base.</p>
<p>In terms of energy security and recyclability, this beats the pants off of lithium-ion batteries, which depend on <a title="Link to Azom article about lithium production" href="http://www.evworld.com/library/lithium_shortage.pdf" target="_blank">resources from the Far East and South America</a> (PDF) and <a title="Computer world blog on lithium-ion batteries" href="http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/3285" target="_blank">are proving very difficult/costly to recycle</a>.</p>
<p><img class="alignleft alignnone size-full wp-image-668" style="float: left" src="http://gas2.org/files/2008/07/oasis-battery.jpg" alt="Firefly's Oasis battery" width="240" height="201" />Firefly is set to release its first commercial product by Q4 of this year with the introduction of the <a title="Link to Firefly Oasis battery page" href="http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=273&amp;Itemid=100" target="_blank">Oasis battery</a> — only available to the trucking industry initially.</p>
<p>While Firefly has no immediate plans to enter the electric vehicle market, they are fully aware of the keen interest their technology has generated among EV enthusiasts and the benefits that their battery technology could provide to the EV market.</p>
<p>I recently had a chance chat with Mil Ovan, Senior Vice President and Co-founder of Firefly, about the company, their take on McCain&#8217;s competition, Firefly&#8217;s battery technology, environmental worries about lead, the Oasis battery, electric vehicles and the company&#8217;s plans for the future.</p>
<p>Rather than try and distill that conversation down to its elements, I thought it was interesting enough to present it in its entirety in a separate post. Click the link below to proceed to that interview.</p>
<h4><a title="Gas 2.0 interview with Mil Ovan, SVP and Co-founder of Firefly Energy" href="http://gas2.org/2008/07/01/interview-with-mil-ovan-svp-and-co-founder-of-firefly-energy/" target="_blank">Interview with Mil Ovan, Senior Vice President and Co-founder of Firefly, June 26th, 2008.</a></h4>
<h3>Posts Related to Batteries, Electric Vehicles, and the Politics of Green:</h3>
<ul>
<li><a title="Permanent Link to McCain Proposes $300 Million Prize to Developer of “Super Battery”" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/06/23/mccain-proposes-300-million-prize-to-developer-of-super-battery/">McCain Proposes $300 Million Prize to Developer of “Super Battery”</a></li>
<li><a title="Permanent Link to Snapshot of Battery Technology for Plug-in Hybrid Electric Cars" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/05/19/snapshot-of-battery-technology-for-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars/">Snapshot of Battery Technology for Plug-in Hybrid Electric Cars</a></li>
<li><a title="Permanent Link to Volkswagen to Produce Plug-In Hybrid Electric Cars in 2010" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/06/30/volkswagen-to-produce-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars-in-2010/">Volkswagen to Produce Plug-In Hybrid Electric Cars in 2010</a></li>
<li><a title="Permanent Link to Mercedes, Smart to Sell Electric Cars in 2010" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/06/23/mercedes-smart-to-sell-electric-cars-in-2010/">Mercedes, Smart to Sell Electric Cars in 2010</a></li>
<li><a title="An Electric Car With Style and Smarts" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/06/23/thnk-ox-an-electric-car-with-style-and-smarts/">Th!nk Ox: An Electric Car With Style and Smarts</a></li>
<li><a title="Permanent Link to Company Turns Familiar Gas Cars Into Electric Vehicles" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/06/17/company-turns-familiar-gas-cars-into-electric-vehicles/">Company Turns Familiar Gas Cars Into Electric Vehicles</a></li>
<li><a title="The $20K TRIAC EV" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/05/27/an-electric-car-you-can-buy-today-the-20k-triac-ev/">An Electric Car You Can Buy Today: The $20K TRIAC EV</a></li>
<li><a title="Permanent Link to Tesla Roadster Pictures From SF Green [Pics]" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/05/15/tesla-roadster-pictures-from-sf-green-pics/">Tesla Roadster Pictures From SF Green [Pics]</a></li>
<li><a title="Permanent Link to Sorry Bush, Voters Think Investment in Renewable Energy is the Best Option" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/04/30/sorry-bush-voters-think-investment-in-renewable-energy-is-the-best-option/">Sorry Bush, Voters Think Investment in Renewable Energy is the Best Option</a></li>
<li><a title="Permanent Link to Senate Republicans Block Windfall Profits Tax on Big Oil Companies" rel="bookmark" href="../2008/06/10/senate-gop-blocks-windfall-profits-tax-on-big-oil/">Senate Republicans Block Windfall Profits Tax on Big Oil Companies</a></li>
</ul>
<p>Image Credits: <a title="Firefly home page" href="http://www.fireflyenergy.com" target="_blank">Firefly Energy</a></p>
]]></description>
    <content:encoded><![CDATA[[social_buttons]

Editor's note: This post is a lead-in story to the Gas 2.0 interview with Mil Ovan, Senior Vice President and Co-founder of Firefly Energy [1]. 

Last week John McCain, the presumptive presidential nominee for the 2008 Republican ticket, suggested that a $300 million government-sponsored competition [2] would be a good way to spur development of next generation battery technologies.

His comments generated debate in the blogosphere [3] and around the United States. Meanwhile, Barack Obama, the presumptive presidential nominee for the Democratic ticket, called McCain's proposal a gimmick [4] suggesting that $300 million was not enough.

Regardless of my feelings about the proposed competition or the candidates themselves, it got me thinking about just who might win it if it were to become a reality. All that thinking led to this post, and, hopefully, to several others that will look at the most promising next generation battery technologies on the horizon.

This week I'll start with Firefly Energy [5].

Founded in 2003, Firefly has been working on reinvigorating old-hat lead-acid battery [6] technology in such a way that it would become brand new and cutting edge once again. On the surface, the concept may seem pretty dull, but digging into it we find that it presents a lot of promise.

Firefly's innovation is that they've taken the heavy lead plates you'd find in a classic lead-acid battery and replaced them with a light carbon-graphite microcell foam that's been impregnated with lead.

Key benefits of their first and second generation technology when compared to traditional lead-acid batteries include:

	up to 70% less lead
	up to 50% reduction in weight and size
	Much faster recharge and discharge capabilities
	Much better cold weather performance
	Increased lifetime and durability

Two of the main problems associated with traditional lead-acid batteries are corrosion [7] and sulfation [8]. Together these are the lead-acid battery's Achilles' heel and the typical reasons they fail. Firefly mitigates these problems by creating a balance between the amount of lead in the battery and the acid electrolyte that flows through the microcell foam [9].

Firefly's technology could make the lead-acid battery truly competitive with other advanced battery chemistries, such as lithium-ion [10], but at a much more affordable price and in a safer package. At the same time, the technology would increase the durability and reliability of the lead-acid battery and address many of the environmental concerns associated with the industry.

Another key benefit of reinvigorating the production of lead-acid batteries in the United States is that it would be a domestic endeavor — meaning that the US has lots of lead available (it's the third largest producer behind China and Australia [11]; PDF), a robust system in place for recycling lead from batteries [12], and a healthy and capable domestic manufacturing base.

In terms of energy security and recyclability, this beats the pants off of lithium-ion batteries, which depend on resources from the Far East and South America [13] (PDF) and are proving very difficult/costly to recycle [14].

Firefly is set to release its first commercial product by Q4 of this year with the introduction of the Oasis battery [15] — only available to the trucking industry initially.

While Firefly has no immediate plans to enter the electric vehicle market, they are fully aware of the keen interest their technology has generated among EV enthusiasts and the benefits that their battery technology could provide to the EV market.

I recently had a chance chat with Mil Ovan, Senior Vice President and Co-founder of Firefly, about the company, their take on McCain's competition, Firefly's battery technology, environmental worries about lead, the Oasis battery, electric vehicles and the company's plans for the future.

Rather than try and distill that conversation down to its elements, I thought it was interesting enough to present it in its entirety in a separate post. Click the link below to proceed to that interview.
Interview with Mil Ovan, Senior Vice President and Co-founder of Firefly, June 26th, 2008. [16]
Posts Related to Batteries, Electric Vehicles, and the Politics of Green:

	McCain Proposes $300 Million Prize to Developer of “Super Battery” [17]
	Snapshot of Battery Technology for Plug-in Hybrid Electric Cars [18]
	Volkswagen to Produce Plug-In Hybrid Electric Cars in 2010 [19]
	Mercedes, Smart to Sell Electric Cars in 2010 [20]
	Th!nk Ox: An Electric Car With Style and Smarts [21]
	Company Turns Familiar Gas Cars Into Electric Vehicles [22]
	An Electric Car You Can Buy Today: The $20K TRIAC EV [23]
	Tesla Roadster Pictures From SF Green [Pics] [24]
	Sorry Bush, Voters Think Investment in Renewable Energy is the Best Option [25]
	Senate Republicans Block Windfall Profits Tax on Big Oil Companies [26]

Image Credits: Firefly Energy [27]

[1] http://gas2.org/2008/07/01/interview-with-mil-ovan-svp-and-co-founder-of-firefly-energy/
[2] http://gas2.org/2008/06/23/mccain-proposes-300-million-prize-to-developer-of-super-battery/
[3] http://www.politicususa.com/en/Obama-Bounty
[4] http://blogs.trucktrend.com/6261183/industry-news/obama-calls-mccains-300-million-battery-prize-a-gimmick/index.html
[5] http://www.fireflyenergy.com/
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_acid_battery
[7] http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&#38;task=view&#38;id=55&#38;Itemid=85
[8] http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&#38;task=view&#38;id=82&#38;Itemid=85
[9] http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&#38;task=view&#38;id=97&#38;Itemid=88
[10] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion
[11] http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/lead/lead_mcs05.pdf
[12] http://www.epa.gov/garbage/battery.htm
[13] http://www.evworld.com/library/lithium_shortage.pdf
[14] http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/3285
[15] http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&#38;task=view&#38;id=273&#38;Itemid=100
[16] http://gas2.org/2008/07/01/interview-with-mil-ovan-svp-and-co-founder-of-firefly-energy/
[17] http://gas2.org../2008/06/23/mccain-proposes-300-million-prize-to-developer-of-super-battery/
[18] http://gas2.org../2008/05/19/snapshot-of-battery-technology-for-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars/
[19] http://gas2.org../2008/06/30/volkswagen-to-produce-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars-in-2010/
[20] http://gas2.org../2008/06/23/mercedes-smart-to-sell-electric-cars-in-2010/
[21] http://gas2.org../2008/06/23/thnk-ox-an-electric-car-with-style-and-smarts/
[22] http://gas2.org../2008/06/17/company-turns-familiar-gas-cars-into-electric-vehicles/
[23] http://gas2.org../2008/05/27/an-electric-car-you-can-buy-today-the-20k-triac-ev/
[24] http://gas2.org../2008/05/15/tesla-roadster-pictures-from-sf-green-pics/
[25] http://gas2.org../2008/04/30/sorry-bush-voters-think-investment-in-renewable-energy-is-the-best-option/
[26] http://gas2.org../2008/06/10/senate-gop-blocks-windfall-profits-tax-on-big-oil/
[27] http://www.fireflyenergy.com]]></content:encoded>
    <wfw:commentRss>http://gas2.org/2008/07/01/who-might-win-mccains-battery-competition-part-i-firefly/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
  </item>
  <item>
    <title>Interview With Mil Ovan, SVP and Co-founder of Firefly Energy</title>
    <link>http://gas2.org/2008/07/01/interview-with-mil-ovan-svp-and-co-founder-of-firefly-energy/</link>
    <comments>http://gas2.org/2008/07/01/interview-with-mil-ovan-svp-and-co-founder-of-firefly-energy/#comments</comments>
    <pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>Nick Chambers</dc:creator>
    
		<category><![CDATA[Batteries]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Electric vehicles (EVs)]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Politics]]></category>

    <guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/?p=661</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-666" style="vertical-align: top" src="http://gas2.org/files/2008/07/ff_logo.jpg" alt="Firefly Logo" width="240" height="173" /><em>Editor&#8217;s note: This interview is a companion piece to <a title="Gas 2.0 post about who might win McCain's battery competition" href="http://gas2.org/2008/07/01/who-might-win-mccains-battery-competition-part-i-firefly/" target="_blank">Part I of the Gas 2.0 series about who might win John McCain&#8217;s proposed $300 million dollar battery competition</a> if it were to become reality.</em></p>
<p>Last week John McCain, the presumptive presidential nominee for the 2008 Republican ticket, generated debate by <a title="Gas 2.0 post about McCain battery competition" href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/23/mccain-proposes-300-million-prize-to-developer-of-super-battery/" target="_blank">suggesting that a $300 million government- sponsored competition</a> would be a good way to spur development of next generation battery technologies.</p>
<p>His comments got me thinking about just who might win such a competition it if it were to become reality.</p>
<p><a title="Firefly Energy homepage" href="http://www.fireflyenergy.com/" target="_blank">Firefly Energy</a> is one of the companies that made it to my short list. Founded in 2003, they have been working on reinvigorating old-hat <a title="Wikipedia entry for lead-acid battery" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_acid_battery" target="_blank">lead-acid battery</a> technology in such a way that it would become brand new and cutting edge once again.</p>
<p>Firefly&#8217;s innovation is that they&#8217;ve taken the heavy lead plates you&#8217;d find in a classic lead-acid battery and replaced them with a light carbon-graphite microcell foam that&#8217;s been impregnated with lead.</p>
<p>I recently had a chance chat with Mil Ovan, Senior Vice President and Co-founder of Firefly, about the company, their take on McCain&#8217;s competition, Firefly&#8217;s battery technology, environmental worries about lead, the Oasis battery, electric vehicles and the company&#8217;s plans for the future.</p>
<h3><!--more-->Interview with Mil Ovan, Senior Vice President and Co-founder of Firefly, June 26th, 2008.</h3>
<p><img class="alignleft alignnone size-full wp-image-667" style="float: left" src="http://gas2.org/files/2008/07/mil_ovan.jpg" alt="Mil Ovan , SVP and Co-founder of Firefly Energy" width="240" height="328" /><strong>NC:</strong> What are the core operating principles of Firefly? What drives the company?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> We are developing a battery technology that reinvigorates a battery chemistry that&#8217;s been around since 1859 — lead-acid. Although traditional lead-acid batteries have been proven safe and are low cost, they suffer from weight issues as well as lifetime issues because they use fairly heavy lead plates on a metal grid. What we&#8217;re doing instead is replacing the lead plates and metal grid with a high surface area, non-corroding, lightweight microcell foam material. Using this technology you can start to realize the true capability of the chemistry and overcome some of those limitations I mentioned by not having to use all that lead in the battery.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> I&#8217;ve read that Firefly started as a part of the company Caterpillar. Is Firefly still a subsidiary of Caterpillar?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> No. The technology was spun off from Caterpillar. Firefly was created as a separate company with separate funding and was founded on May 1st, 2003.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> As you know, one of the main reasons we got interested in having this conversation was because of John McCain&#8217;s recent proposal to hold a competition to see who could come up with the most advanced next generation battery technology. If McCain&#8217;s $300 million battery competition were to become reality, what would give Firefly the edge to win it?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> First of all I&#8217;d like to say that whatever party is offering solutions that involve expediting development of next generation batteries, we&#8217;re all for that. The government has spent hundreds of millions of dollars a year on fuel cell development and we&#8217;re still probably as far away from fuel cells as we were ten years ago when they said it would be ten years before we see them widely deployed. We see the shift coming towards the realization that fuel cells are still going to take at least another ten years and that battery technology is of paramount importance.</p>
<p>Right now the world of advanced batteries and research is primarily in the far east, most notably in China. In one sense, while we want to electrify vehicles and reduce our nation&#8217;s dependance on foreign oil and the national security risks that represents, we&#8217;re in essence kind of trading one energy security risk for another because the majority of the lithium-ion batteries come from China. Firefly&#8217;s goal is to reinvigorate the vast base of lead-acid battery manufacturers in the US and enable them and their customers to enjoy greater performance without necessarily getting the resources of the less safe, higher priced, advanced batteries that come from the far east.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> I hear where you&#8217;re coming from on fuel cells. I remember about 20 years ago I read an article in Popular Science about how hydrogen fuel cells were going to be widely available within the decade. That was 20 years ago. Today they&#8217;re still saying that hydrogen fuel cells will be available within the decade. It&#8217;s easy to get pessimistic about fuel cells given that environment.</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> Yeah. The thoughts about lithium-ion technology right now are similar to how fuel cells have evolved over time. People are saying &#8220;yeah, it&#8217;s expensive&#8221; and &#8220;yeah, it&#8217;s not as safe as it needs to be,&#8221; but there&#8217;s a lot of money being thrown into it and a lot of smart people. Well, take out the word lithium-ion and replace it with fuel cell and it&#8217;s the same phrases that have been uttered about fuel cells for some time now. We think we are unique in that we have a very practical means of gaining better battery performance and getting that right equation of safety, cost, run-time, size, weight, and life that has eluded many in the past. On one end of the extreme you have companies liking lead-acid&#8217;s low cost but hating its life and weight issues, and at the other extreme liking lithium-ion and nickel-metal hydride for their small footprint and light weight, but hating its ten-times cost penalty and safety and thermal challenges.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> So, McCain thinks his plan is a good idea, Obama says its a gimmick. Obviously both of them are interested in spurring next generation technologies. Do you think something like McCain&#8217;s plan is a good idea, or is it a gimmick? If you think it would spur innovation, do you think $300 million is enough?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> One has to look at the specifics of the proposal to weigh in and determine whether it&#8217;s a practical idea or not. Without knowing the details — I haven&#8217;t seen them yet — I&#8217;m not going to comment on whether that particular plan is a good one.</p>
<p>In general government support of advanced research on batteries is a good thing because the stock market doesn&#8217;t support long term investments in capital in research — they&#8217;re more interested in quarterly results — and certainly venture capitalists aren&#8217;t patient enough to see multimillion dollar research evolve. A lot of venture capitalist jumped into investing in fuel cells only to see the payback be much longer than they expected.</p>
<p>It is a role of our government to enable basic research because, frankly, our country is being outspent in battery research by China, Japan and Korea.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> Shifting gears now&#8230; What is the microcell foam made of?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> There&#8217;s a variety of materials we can choose from including graphite and carbon.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> Graphite is a pretty fragile compound. Is there a way you&#8217;ve gotten around that limitation in your battery to increase the durability?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> The way in which we reinforce the underlying foam is part of the intellectual property of Firefly, and part of those reinforcement methods are patented and some are trade secrets.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> Okay, we&#8217;ll leave it at that I guess. Inside the battery, is the lead bonded to the foam?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> Yeah. In a regular lead-acid battery, for lack of a better term, you plop the chemistry on top of the lead metal grid and then you press onto that the plate and that&#8217;s a two-dimensional grid structure. In contrast, in the Firefly foam approach the chemistry is washed into the pores of the foam so that now you have a three-dimensional surface area that you can take advantage of and the electrolyte then is in much tighter proximity within the pores of the foam to the chemistry that is in the walls of that foam. Now your ability to recharge and discharge the battery is greatly increased and particularly in cold weather it becomes an advantage.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> How long would you expect the Firefly battery to last versus a traditional lead-acid battery or versus a lithium-ion?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> The answer on all of these things is &#8216;it depends.&#8217; I&#8217;ve been in the battery industry 5 years now and I&#8217;ve come to learn the phrase &#8220;there are liars, damn liars and battery companies.&#8221; As a policy, in the public forum, we don&#8217;t make claims that &#8216;hey our battery can achieve this level of watt hours per kilogram and watt hours per liter&#8217; because it really is dependent on solving a complex set of calculations in terms of cost, safety, runtime, weight, volume, and temperature concerns. So these types of things really depends on the application.</p>
<p>Take an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) example. Envision a room full of lead-acid batteries providing power backup for a data center of a major corporation. Under a fast discharge of five minutes — say power goes out at the facility and before the generator kicks in — the batteries are invoked and over the course of a five minute discharge, that battery is drained. The problem with a classic lead-acid battery, is that under very fast discharges it can supply the power you need, but it requires a room&#8217;s full of batteries to do it. In contrast, the high surface area of Firefly microcell foam batteries can accomplish that same five minute discharge in half a room&#8217;s worth of batteries. So what does this mean practically? It&#8217;s at least half the weight and half the volume of classic lead-acid battery technology. So the implications beyond that would include that there&#8217;s less shipping, less installation, less cabling required, less floor space taken up, and less air conditioning. The benefits really multiply in just that one example alone.</p>
<p>Another example is the Army. We&#8217;re working on a prototype battery for military tank applications. The Army says &#8220;we&#8217;re not interested in size reduction because this Bradley tank has a battery tray and cables already wired with set specifications.&#8221; It&#8217;s a 40-ton vehicle so weight reduction is nice to have, but it&#8217;s not critical. The idea is to just stuff as much runtime as you can into this thing. So in that example we&#8217;re not delivering any size savings, but were greatly improving upon watt-hours per liter of the current lead-acid batteries. So, all that is a long-winded way of telling you that it&#8217;s a complicated answer.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> What kinds of reductions do you find in the amount of lead used in the Firefly batteries when compared to classic lead-acid batteries?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> I believe on our website there&#8217;s <a title="Firefly white paper" href="http://www.fireflyenergy.com/images/stories/pdfs/white%20paper%204.25.08.pdf" target="_blank">a trucking industry white paper</a> (PDF), and in there we go into a description of how much lead per battery is in a Firefly battery versus a standard battery. The other factor to consider is that a battery is going to last several times longer than a regular lead-acid battery, so the amount of lead used in the mission, in this case powering a truck over several years instead of over one year, means that the effective lead reduction is several fold. That&#8217;s how we like to portray the lead reduction.</p>
<p>Now we have two technologies. The first one we call <a href="http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=205&amp;Itemid=89" target="_blank">3D</a>, which involves the replacement of the negative lead metal grids in a classic lead-acid battery with a microcell foam. The positive lead metal grids as well as the overall interconnecting strap that connects the cells within that battery are still lead. The second generation of our technology that we&#8217;re also working on is called <a href="http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=60&amp;Itemid=89" target="_blank">3D2</a>, and that replaces all of the lead metal in the battery with the foam material. The amount of lead savings can range from 50% to 70% depending on which technology were talking about. The true effective reduction in lead depends on the application.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re about to commercialize a battery for the world of highway trucks called Oasis. The reason why we named it Oasis is because, when you think about it, what does a sleeper cab represent to trucker that&#8217;s just finished a ten hour hour drive and he&#8217;s pulling into a truck stop in the middle of August and it&#8217;s 95 degrees out? Well that sleeper cab is a sanctuary or refuge or, as we like to call it, an oasis. With the anti-idling legislation that is starting to sweep the country requiring that, for example in California you need to shut off your truck engine for a portion of every hour, how are they going to run all of their hotel loads — microwave ovens, TVs and the like? It&#8217;s going to put a tremendous strain on current lead-acid batteries which are primarily used for starting the truck, not for runtime support.</p>
<p>Besides requirements due to anti-idling legislation, since January prices for diesel have gone from $3 to over $5 per gallon. If you&#8217;re idling your engine 8 hours a night times $5 per gallon — because that&#8217;s about how much is consumed per hour when you&#8217;re idling the main engine — times 5 days per week times 52 weeks per year, you can see how incredibly expensive idling your truck becomes. In response, Firefly has developed this long runtime battery in the classic group 31 battery footprint and we think it is going to enable fuel savings as well as pollution reduction as a result — and give the trucker the kind of performance he needs in order to drive effectively.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re also pursuing a strategic marketing relationship with a company called Bergstrom, which makes a battery powered supplemental air conditioning system, so that indeed you can turn off the engine and the driver can turn on this supplemental battery powered air conditioning system in the sleeper cab and the driver can have a comfortable night&#8217;s rest running on battery power.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> My brother is a trucker, so I&#8217;m familiar with those laws. There&#8217;s another strategy in the preliminary stages I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re aware of in truck stops where they are putting in these supplemental power units and air conditioning attachments, but you have to have your truck specially outfitted to take advantage of that&#8230;</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> Well, yeah, and you have to also find a place that has that special equipment and, you know, it&#8217;s not ubiquitous of course, so it&#8217;s not a solution that&#8217;s going to make a big dent in the trucking problems we&#8217;re facing today.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> And I&#8217;d say that most truckers don&#8217;t actually spend every night at truck stops, they spend the night on the side of the road&#8230;</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> &#8230;Right, along the highway on an exit.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> In terms of the Oasis, and maybe any other future products, obviously there&#8217;s going to be a premium charged for the technology. What&#8217;s the premium you expect to charge for the Oasis over a traditional lead-acid battery?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> Well, if you look at the spectrum of choices available to a trucker for group 31 lead-acid batteries, they could buy an inexpensive flooded lead-acid battery for anywhere from 80 to 100 bucks, and if you went to the next tier of quality lead-acid batteries it would be a valve-regulated lead-acid battery, or VRLA battery, and that would be around $280 for one battery. We haven&#8217;t announced prices yet, but we&#8217;ll probably be somewhere around $400 per battery. From a cycles per dollar perspective, that being how many times can you run it before you have to replace it given that it&#8217;s a heavy cycling application, we think that on a cycles per dollar basis it&#8217;s cheaper than both of the traditional battery choices I mentioned. Certainly, in the view of battery powered air conditioning systems and the like and being able to turn your engine off and not use fuel idling, the payback would be less than a year.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> So you&#8217;ve got the Oasis, there&#8217;s some buzz going about that — but future products? Obviously, from our readership there&#8217;s going to be a huge interest about electric vehicles. So the next questions are going to be about just that. I don&#8217;t know how much you&#8217;ll be able to answer about it because you haven&#8217;t even gone there yet, but I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve talked with some companies or interested parties that are out there. In general, when you&#8217;re talking about electric vehicles, what sorts of benefits does your technology hold over lithium-ion?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> Well, I think that before I answer that question I would say that if you look to the GM EV1, it was deployed in California and Arizona. Why? Because it had a 60 mile range due to the limitations of the traditional lead-acid batteries that it had. But, were you to drive it in the depths of winter in Detroit, you would have an 8 mile range. That&#8217;s because in a classic lead-acid battery it&#8217;s capacity falls as the temperature falls. So at minus 20 degrees centigrade you would only have 10-15% of what you would have at 30 degrees centigrade — which would be 100% of your battery capacity. In contrast, with the microcell foam Firefly technology you would have about 60% of your maximum battery capacity at minus 20 degrees centigrade.</p>
<p>So what does that mean? First of all it means lead-acid electric vehicles can become more practical across the nation not just specific to a modest temperature or a modest climate like in California. So that&#8217;s one advantage. Secondly, lithium-ion and nickel metal hydride batteries have certain issues in terms of capabilities in both cold and hot temperature extremes that are limitations. Third, in particular, if you look at nickel metal hydride batteries they have a very high self discharge rate and so if you left your electric vehicle standing without charging it for a week you&#8217;d see a fairly significant drop off in capacity.</p>
<p>The Firefly battery has an incredibly low self discharge rate even compared to a traditional lead-acid battery which is already the best among the various chemistries in terms of slow self discharge rates. Even the first generation of our technology, 3D, probably would be the best lead-acid battery out there in terms of fitting with an EV for those few reasons I mentioned. But we think that the real promise, in terms of the world of EVs will come from our second generation technology, 3D2, where we&#8217;ll be able to make pretty significant inroads in terms of weight and size reduction and making it competitive to lithium-ion. Because in today&#8217;s world of lead-acid EVs, as you know, you&#8217;re spending a fair amount of energy just pushing the lead down the road.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> Not to mention that it&#8217;s lead and people are always going to have environmental concerns about the process of making lead and the chances for it to contaminate the environment. But after reading through your website, Firefly seems to have a good argument for why lead is actually a better choice than lithium-ion when it comes to the environment because there&#8217;s a vast recycling program already available in the United States&#8230;</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> Yeah, people don&#8217;t talk about that with these other chemistries. It is very expensive to reclaim the metal in a lithium-ion or nickel metal hydride battery and lead-acid has a far better recycling rate than aluminum bottles — over 90% of lead-acid batteries are recycled — and there&#8217;s no change required in the recycling infrastructure to reclaim the Firefly batteries.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> So, there are going to be a lot of people who will ask &#8220;when can I get a hold of a Firefly battery to put it in my electric car?&#8221; What would you say to that?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> We get that all the time&#8230;. all the time. I mean, there is no one more passionate about seeking better battery solutions than the EV aficionado. That&#8217;s for sure. They&#8217;ve been continuously eager to get a hold of our battery. As a start up, however, I hope your readers can appreciate that there&#8217;s only so much time we have on our investment capital, so we have to get to market with some major customers first and so we&#8217;re working with some major companies and we&#8217;re also working with the US Army.</p>
<p>Out of that work I would hope that there could come variants that would allow Firefly to offer a lead-acid battery for the EV crowd that represents a new standard for performance capabilities for those that are looking to put lead-acid batteries in their converted vehicles. But there are also other types of EVs ranging from scooters to three wheel and four wheel vehicles and neighborhood electric vehicles and the like.</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s a question of finding what&#8217;s best and making it all fit. What&#8217;s the ideal distribution structure that would allow us to get those batteries out to that audience? What would be your advice if I were to sort of turn the tables on you? What vehicle do you think this would be best for in terms of type of electric vehicle? Or do you just offer it up for sale and let the EV world grab it and adapt it as they would for their application?</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> Well, that&#8217;s a good question. I think that once you start digging into it, there are a huge amount of home EV tinkerers, especially in the west. There are organizations like the <a title="Seattle Electric Vehicle Association home page" href="http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/Main_Page" target="_blank">Seattle Electric Vehicle Association</a>. It might be that you could establish connections with those groups. You know, even the Oasis battery that you are selling to truckers, they might want to tinker with that. That might be a place to start and establish a relationship.</p>
<p>But, I don&#8217;t know, I see what your problem is. It&#8217;s an issue of chicken and egg. Nonetheless, I think from all the research I&#8217;ve been doing and the comments I&#8217;ve seen — and I&#8217;m probably biased because I&#8217;m in the thick of it — I think that in the next 2 to 3 years I would imagine there would be a big enough market of electric vehicles for you to start considering actually developing batteries specifically for that market. Anyway, if you were to develop a battery for EVs, this 3D2 technology, how far off is that really?</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> I think that probably in 24-36 months we could have a commercial version of our 3D2 technology. Now, I&#8217;m not saying that it would be ready for an EV at that stage because we do have funding from the US Army to develop something for them, but we&#8217;re aiming to commercialize our technology in the next 24-36 months.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> Compared to a lithium-ion battery — these are the last questions by the way, and then I&#8217;ll let you get going because I&#8217;m sure you have better things to do than talk with me — how far might you expect an electric vehicle vehicle powered by your next generation battery to go on one charge and at what kind of speed? Ball park if you can. If you can&#8217;t that&#8217;s fine, but these are going to be the kinds of questions that I get and the better I can answer them, even if they are not set in stone, the better it would be.</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> The problem with lithium is that everybody likes to quote what the innate performance of the single cell is&#8230; you know in terms of watt hours. The problem is that when you put it into a multi-cell task now you&#8217;ve got all these thermal management issues and you&#8217;ve got these safety issues that require controls and all of this safety and thermal management stuff that all adds to the volume and weight of the box which then drags down the performance in terms of range and so on. The fact is that you&#8217;ve got to keep lithium from over-discharging. Therefore you&#8217;re really not using the innate power capability of that single cell as a result.</p>
<p>We get very specific with major customers who say &#8220;here&#8217;s my application, here&#8217;s the performance envelope of that application, and here&#8217;s my favorite battery in this application, how would you compare?&#8221; All I&#8217;m saying is that I don&#8217;t like to throw out a number there because there are so many factors that have to be considered for each application and, in any case, are you talking about a particular climate, are you talking about combined city/highway driving, are you talking about hills involved, you know, what specifics? So I&#8217;m going to have to beg off on answering that question for those reasons.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> Okay, thanks&#8230; and with that I guess I&#8217;ll let you go.</p>
<p><strong>MO:</strong> Thanks Nick. It was good talking with you. I enjoyed your questions.</p>
<p><strong>NC:</strong> Well, thanks very much for taking the time to answer them in such a thorough way.</p>
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<p>Image Credits: <a title="Firefly home page" href="http://www.fireflyenergy.com/" target="_blank">Firefly Energy</a></p>
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    <content:encoded><![CDATA[Editor's note: This interview is a companion piece to Part I of the Gas 2.0 series about who might win John McCain's proposed $300 million dollar battery competition [1] if it were to become reality.

Last week John McCain, the presumptive presidential nominee for the 2008 Republican ticket, generated debate by suggesting that a $300 million government- sponsored competition [2] would be a good way to spur development of next generation battery technologies.

His comments got me thinking about just who might win such a competition it if it were to become reality.

Firefly Energy [3] is one of the companies that made it to my short list. Founded in 2003, they have been working on reinvigorating old-hat lead-acid battery [4] technology in such a way that it would become brand new and cutting edge once again.

Firefly's innovation is that they've taken the heavy lead plates you'd find in a classic lead-acid battery and replaced them with a light carbon-graphite microcell foam that's been impregnated with lead.

I recently had a chance chat with Mil Ovan, Senior Vice President and Co-founder of Firefly, about the company, their take on McCain's competition, Firefly's battery technology, environmental worries about lead, the Oasis battery, electric vehicles and the company's plans for the future.
Interview with Mil Ovan, Senior Vice President and Co-founder of Firefly, June 26th, 2008.
NC: What are the core operating principles of Firefly? What drives the company?

MO: We are developing a battery technology that reinvigorates a battery chemistry that's been around since 1859 — lead-acid. Although traditional lead-acid batteries have been proven safe and are low cost, they suffer from weight issues as well as lifetime issues because they use fairly heavy lead plates on a metal grid. What we're doing instead is replacing the lead plates and metal grid with a high surface area, non-corroding, lightweight microcell foam material. Using this technology you can start to realize the true capability of the chemistry and overcome some of those limitations I mentioned by not having to use all that lead in the battery.

NC: I've read that Firefly started as a part of the company Caterpillar. Is Firefly still a subsidiary of Caterpillar?

MO: No. The technology was spun off from Caterpillar. Firefly was created as a separate company with separate funding and was founded on May 1st, 2003.

NC: As you know, one of the main reasons we got interested in having this conversation was because of John McCain's recent proposal to hold a competition to see who could come up with the most advanced next generation battery technology. If McCain's $300 million battery competition were to become reality, what would give Firefly the edge to win it?

MO: First of all I'd like to say that whatever party is offering solutions that involve expediting development of next generation batteries, we're all for that. The government has spent hundreds of millions of dollars a year on fuel cell development and we're still probably as far away from fuel cells as we were ten years ago when they said it would be ten years before we see them widely deployed. We see the shift coming towards the realization that fuel cells are still going to take at least another ten years and that battery technology is of paramount importance.

Right now the world of advanced batteries and research is primarily in the far east, most notably in China. In one sense, while we want to electrify vehicles and reduce our nation's dependance on foreign oil and the national security risks that represents, we're in essence kind of trading one energy security risk for another because the majority of the lithium-ion batteries come from China. Firefly's goal is to reinvigorate the vast base of lead-acid battery manufacturers in the US and enable them and their customers to enjoy greater performance without necessarily getting the resources of the less safe, higher priced, advanced batteries that come from the far east.

NC: I hear where you're coming from on fuel cells. I remember about 20 years ago I read an article in Popular Science about how hydrogen fuel cells were going to be widely available within the decade. That was 20 years ago. Today they're still saying that hydrogen fuel cells will be available within the decade. It's easy to get pessimistic about fuel cells given that environment.

MO: Yeah. The thoughts about lithium-ion technology right now are similar to how fuel cells have evolved over time. People are saying "yeah, it's expensive" and "yeah, it's not as safe as it needs to be," but there's a lot of money being thrown into it and a lot of smart people. Well, take out the word lithium-ion and replace it with fuel cell and it's the same phrases that have been uttered about fuel cells for some time now. We think we are unique in that we have a very practical means of gaining better battery performance and getting that right equation of safety, cost, run-time, size, weight, and life that has eluded many in the past. On one end of the extreme you have companies liking lead-acid's low cost but hating its life and weight issues, and at the other extreme liking lithium-ion and nickel-metal hydride for their small footprint and light weight, but hating its ten-times cost penalty and safety and thermal challenges.

NC: So, McCain thinks his plan is a good idea, Obama says its a gimmick. Obviously both of them are interested in spurring next generation technologies. Do you think something like McCain's plan is a good idea, or is it a gimmick? If you think it would spur innovation, do you think $300 million is enough?

MO: One has to look at the specifics of the proposal to weigh in and determine whether it's a practical idea or not. Without knowing the details — I haven't seen them yet — I'm not going to comment on whether that particular plan is a good one.

In general government support of advanced research on batteries is a good thing because the stock market doesn't support long term investments in capital in research — they're more interested in quarterly results — and certainly venture capitalists aren't patient enough to see multimillion dollar research evolve. A lot of venture capitalist jumped into investing in fuel cells only to see the payback be much longer than they expected.

It is a role of our government to enable basic research because, frankly, our country is being outspent in battery research by China, Japan and Korea.

NC: Shifting gears now... What is the microcell foam made of?

MO: There's a variety of materials we can choose from including graphite and carbon.

NC: Graphite is a pretty fragile compound. Is there a way you've gotten around that limitation in your battery to increase the durability?

MO: The way in which we reinforce the underlying foam is part of the intellectual property of Firefly, and part of those reinforcement methods are patented and some are trade secrets.

NC: Okay, we'll leave it at that I guess. Inside the battery, is the lead bonded to the foam?

MO: Yeah. In a regular lead-acid battery, for lack of a better term, you plop the chemistry on top of the lead metal grid and then you press onto that the plate and that's a two-dimensional grid structure. In contrast, in the Firefly foam approach the chemistry is washed into the pores of the foam so that now you have a three-dimensional surface area that you can take advantage of and the electrolyte then is in much tighter proximity within the pores of the foam to the chemistry that is in the walls of that foam. Now your ability to recharge and discharge the battery is greatly increased and particularly in cold weather it becomes an advantage.

NC: How long would you expect the Firefly battery to last versus a traditional lead-acid battery or versus a lithium-ion?

MO: The answer on all of these things is 'it depends.' I've been in the battery industry 5 years now and I've come to learn the phrase "there are liars, damn liars and battery companies." As a policy, in the public forum, we don't make claims that 'hey our battery can achieve this level of watt hours per kilogram and watt hours per liter' because it really is dependent on solving a complex set of calculations in terms of cost, safety, runtime, weight, volume, and temperature concerns. So these types of things really depends on the application.

Take an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) example. Envision a room full of lead-acid batteries providing power backup for a data center of a major corporation. Under a fast discharge of five minutes — say power goes out at the facility and before the generator kicks in — the batteries are invoked and over the course of a five minute discharge, that battery is drained. The problem with a classic lead-acid battery, is that under very fast discharges it can supply the power you need, but it requires a room's full of batteries to do it. In contrast, the high surface area of Firefly microcell foam batteries can accomplish that same five minute discharge in half a room's worth of batteries. So what does this mean practically? It's at least half the weight and half the volume of classic lead-acid battery technology. So the implications beyond that would include that there's less shipping, less installation, less cabling required, less floor space taken up, and less air conditioning. The benefits really multiply in just that one example alone.

Another example is the Army. We're working on a prototype battery for military tank applications. The Army says "we're not interested in size reduction because this Bradley tank has a battery tray and cables already wired with set specifications." It's a 40-ton vehicle so weight reduction is nice to have, but it's not critical. The idea is to just stuff as much runtime as you can into this thing. So in that example we're not delivering any size savings, but were greatly improving upon watt-hours per liter of the current lead-acid batteries. So, all that is a long-winded way of telling you that it's a complicated answer.

NC: What kinds of reductions do you find in the amount of lead used in the Firefly batteries when compared to classic lead-acid batteries?

MO: I believe on our website there's a trucking industry white paper [5] (PDF), and in there we go into a description of how much lead per battery is in a Firefly battery versus a standard battery. The other factor to consider is that a battery is going to last several times longer than a regular lead-acid battery, so the amount of lead used in the mission, in this case powering a truck over several years instead of over one year, means that the effective lead reduction is several fold. That's how we like to portray the lead reduction.

Now we have two technologies. The first one we call 3D [6], which involves the replacement of the negative lead metal grids in a classic lead-acid battery with a microcell foam. The positive lead metal grids as well as the overall interconnecting strap that connects the cells within that battery are still lead. The second generation of our technology that we're also working on is called 3D2 [7], and that replaces all of the lead metal in the battery with the foam material. The amount of lead savings can range from 50% to 70% depending on which technology were talking about. The true effective reduction in lead depends on the application.

We're about to commercialize a battery for the world of highway trucks called Oasis. The reason why we named it Oasis is because, when you think about it, what does a sleeper cab represent to trucker that's just finished a ten hour hour drive and he's pulling into a truck stop in the middle of August and it's 95 degrees out? Well that sleeper cab is a sanctuary or refuge or, as we like to call it, an oasis. With the anti-idling legislation that is starting to sweep the country requiring that, for example in California you need to shut off your truck engine for a portion of every hour, how are they going to run all of their hotel loads — microwave ovens, TVs and the like? It's going to put a tremendous strain on current lead-acid batteries which are primarily used for starting the truck, not for runtime support.

Besides requirements due to anti-idling legislation, since January prices for diesel have gone from $3 to over $5 per gallon. If you're idling your engine 8 hours a night times $5 per gallon — because that's about how much is consumed per hour when you're idling the main engine — times 5 days per week times 52 weeks per year, you can see how incredibly expensive idling your truck becomes. In response, Firefly has developed this long runtime battery in the classic group 31 battery footprint and we think it is going to enable fuel savings as well as pollution reduction as a result — and give the trucker the kind of performance he needs in order to drive effectively.

We're also pursuing a strategic marketing relationship with a company called Bergstrom, which makes a battery powered supplemental air conditioning system, so that indeed you can turn off the engine and the driver can turn on this supplemental battery powered air conditioning system in the sleeper cab and the driver can have a comfortable night's rest running on battery power.

NC: My brother is a trucker, so I'm familiar with those laws. There's another strategy in the preliminary stages I'm sure you're aware of in truck stops where they are putting in these supplemental power units and air conditioning attachments, but you have to have your truck specially outfitted to take advantage of that...

MO: Well, yeah, and you have to also find a place that has that special equipment and, you know, it's not ubiquitous of course, so it's not a solution that's going to make a big dent in the trucking problems we're facing today.

NC: And I'd say that most truckers don't actually spend every night at truck stops, they spend the night on the side of the road...

MO: ...Right, along the highway on an exit.

NC: In terms of the Oasis, and maybe any other future products, obviously there's going to be a premium charged for the technology. What's the premium you expect to charge for the Oasis over a traditional lead-acid battery?

MO: Well, if you look at the spectrum of choices available to a trucker for group 31 lead-acid batteries, they could buy an inexpensive flooded lead-acid battery for anywhere from 80 to 100 bucks, and if you went to the next tier of quality lead-acid batteries it would be a valve-regulated lead-acid battery, or VRLA battery, and that would be around $280 for one battery. We haven't announced prices yet, but we'll probably be somewhere around $400 per battery. From a cycles per dollar perspective, that being how many times can you run it before you have to replace it given that it's a heavy cycling application, we think that on a cycles per dollar basis it's cheaper than both of the traditional battery choices I mentioned. Certainly, in the view of battery powered air conditioning systems and the like and being able to turn your engine off and not use fuel idling, the payback would be less than a year.

NC: So you've got the Oasis, there's some buzz going about that — but future products? Obviously, from our readership there's going to be a huge interest about electric vehicles. So the next questions are going to be about just that. I don't know how much you'll be able to answer about it because you haven't even gone there yet, but I'm sure you've talked with some companies or interested parties that are out there. In general, when you're talking about electric vehicles, what sorts of benefits does your technology hold over lithium-ion?

MO: Well, I think that before I answer that question I would say that if you look to the GM EV1, it was deployed in California and Arizona. Why? Because it had a 60 mile range due to the limitations of the traditional lead-acid batteries that it had. But, were you to drive it in the depths of winter in Detroit, you would have an 8 mile range. That's because in a classic lead-acid battery it's capacity falls as the temperature falls. So at minus 20 degrees centigrade you would only have 10-15% of what you would have at 30 degrees centigrade — which would be 100% of your battery capacity. In contrast, with the microcell foam Firefly technology you would have about 60% of your maximum battery capacity at minus 20 degrees centigrade.

So what does that mean? First of all it means lead-acid electric vehicles can become more practical across the nation not just specific to a modest temperature or a modest climate like in California. So that's one advantage. Secondly, lithium-ion and nickel metal hydride batteries have certain issues in terms of capabilities in both cold and hot temperature extremes that are limitations. Third, in particular, if you look at nickel metal hydride batteries they have a very high self discharge rate and so if you left your electric vehicle standing without charging it for a week you'd see a fairly significant drop off in capacity.

The Firefly battery has an incredibly low self discharge rate even compared to a traditional lead-acid battery which is already the best among the various chemistries in terms of slow self discharge rates. Even the first generation of our technology, 3D, probably would be the best lead-acid battery out there in terms of fitting with an EV for those few reasons I mentioned. But we think that the real promise, in terms of the world of EVs will come from our second generation technology, 3D2, where we'll be able to make pretty significant inroads in terms of weight and size reduction and making it competitive to lithium-ion. Because in today's world of lead-acid EVs, as you know, you're spending a fair amount of energy just pushing the lead down the road.

NC: Not to mention that it's lead and people are always going to have environmental concerns about the process of making lead and the chances for it to contaminate the environment. But after reading through your website, Firefly seems to have a good argument for why lead is actually a better choice than lithium-ion when it comes to the environment because there's a vast recycling program already available in the United States...

MO: Yeah, people don't talk about that with these other chemistries. It is very expensive to reclaim the metal in a lithium-ion or nickel metal hydride battery and lead-acid has a far better recycling rate than aluminum bottles — over 90% of lead-acid batteries are recycled — and there's no change required in the recycling infrastructure to reclaim the Firefly batteries.

NC: So, there are going to be a lot of people who will ask "when can I get a hold of a Firefly battery to put it in my electric car?" What would you say to that?

MO: We get that all the time.... all the time. I mean, there is no one more passionate about seeking better battery solutions than the EV aficionado. That's for sure. They've been continuously eager to get a hold of our battery. As a start up, however, I hope your readers can appreciate that there's only so much time we have on our investment capital, so we have to get to market with some major customers first and so we're working with some major companies and we're also working with the US Army.

Out of that work I would hope that there could come variants that would allow Firefly to offer a lead-acid battery for the EV crowd that represents a new standard for performance capabilities for those that are looking to put lead-acid batteries in their converted vehicles. But there are also other types of EVs ranging from scooters to three wheel and four wheel vehicles and neighborhood electric vehicles and the like.

So it's a question of finding what's best and making it all fit. What's the ideal distribution structure that would allow us to get those batteries out to that audience? What would be your advice if I were to sort of turn the tables on you? What vehicle do you think this would be best for in terms of type of electric vehicle? Or do you just offer it up for sale and let the EV world grab it and adapt it as they would for their application?

NC: Well, that's a good question. I think that once you start digging into it, there are a huge amount of home EV tinkerers, especially in the west. There are organizations like the Seattle Electric Vehicle Association [8]. It might be that you could establish connections with those groups. You know, even the Oasis battery that you are selling to truckers, they might want to tinker with that. That might be a place to start and establish a relationship.

But, I don't know, I see what your problem is. It's an issue of chicken and egg. Nonetheless, I think from all the research I've been doing and the comments I've seen — and I'm probably biased because I'm in the thick of it — I think that in the next 2 to 3 years I would imagine there would be a big enough market of electric vehicles for you to start considering actually developing batteries specifically for that market. Anyway, if you were to develop a battery for EVs, this 3D2 technology, how far off is that really?

MO: I think that probably in 24-36 months we could have a commercial version of our 3D2 technology. Now, I'm not saying that it would be ready for an EV at that stage because we do have funding from the US Army to develop something for them, but we're aiming to commercialize our technology in the next 24-36 months.

NC: Compared to a lithium-ion battery — these are the last questions by the way, and then I'll let you get going because I'm sure you have better things to do than talk with me — how far might you expect an electric vehicle vehicle powered by your next generation battery to go on one charge and at what kind of speed? Ball park if you can. If you can't that's fine, but these are going to be the kinds of questions that I get and the better I can answer them, even if they are not set in stone, the better it would be.

MO: The problem with lithium is that everybody likes to quote what the innate performance of the single cell is... you know in terms of watt hours. The problem is that when you put it into a multi-cell task now you've got all these thermal management issues and you've got these safety issues that require controls and all of this safety and thermal management stuff that all adds to the volume and weight of the box which then drags down the performance in terms of range and so on. The fact is that you've got to keep lithium from over-discharging. Therefore you're really not using the innate power capability of that single cell as a result.

We get very specific with major customers who say "here's my application, here's the performance envelope of that application, and here's my favorite battery in this application, how would you compare?" All I'm saying is that I don't like to throw out a number there because there are so many factors that have to be considered for each application and, in any case, are you talking about a particular climate, are you talking about combined city/highway driving, are you talking about hills involved, you know, what specifics? So I'm going to have to beg off on answering that question for those reasons.

NC: Okay, thanks... and with that I guess I'll let you go.

MO: Thanks Nick. It was good talking with you. I enjoyed your questions.

NC: Well, thanks very much for taking the time to answer them in such a thorough way.
Posts Related to Batteries, Electric Vehicles, and the Politics of Green:

	McCain Proposes $300 Million Prize to Developer of “Super Battery” [9]
	Snapshot of Battery Technology for Plug-in Hybrid Electric Cars [10]
	Volkswagen to Produce Plug-In Hybrid Electric Cars in 2010 [11]
	Mercedes, Smart to Sell Electric Cars in 2010 [12]
	Th!nk Ox: An Electric Car With Style and Smarts [13]
	Company Turns Familiar Gas Cars Into Electric Vehicles [14]
	An Electric Car You Can Buy Today: The $20K TRIAC EV [15]
	Tesla Roadster Pictures From SF Green [Pics] [16]
	Sorry Bush, Voters Think Investment in Renewable Energy is the Best Option [17]
	Senate Republicans Block Windfall Profits Tax on Big Oil Companies [18]

Image Credits: Firefly Energy [19]

[1] http://gas2.org/2008/07/01/who-might-win-mccains-battery-competition-part-i-firefly/
[2] http://gas2.org/2008/06/23/mccain-proposes-300-million-prize-to-developer-of-super-battery/
[3] http://www.fireflyenergy.com/
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_acid_battery
[5] http://www.fireflyenergy.com/images/stories/pdfs/white%20paper%204.25.08.pdf
[6] http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&#38;task=view&#38;id=205&#38;Itemid=89
[7] http://www.fireflyenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&#38;task=view&#38;id=60&#38;Itemid=89
[8] http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/Main_Page
[9] http://gas2.org../2008/06/23/mccain-proposes-300-million-prize-to-developer-of-super-battery/
[10] http://gas2.org../2008/05/19/snapshot-of-battery-technology-for-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars/
[11] http://gas2.org../2008/06/30/volkswagen-to-produce-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars-in-2010/
[12] http://gas2.org../2008/06/23/mercedes-smart-to-sell-electric-cars-in-2010/
[13] http://gas2.org../2008/06/23/thnk-ox-an-electric-car-with-style-and-smarts/
[14] http://gas2.org../2008/06/17/company-turns-familiar-gas-cars-into-electric-vehicles/
[15] http://gas2.org../2008/05/27/an-electric-car-you-can-buy-today-the-20k-triac-ev/
[16] http://gas2.org../2008/05/15/tesla-roadster-pictures-from-sf-green-pics/
[17] http://gas2.org../2008/04/30/sorry-bush-voters-think-investment-in-renewable-energy-is-the-best-option/
[18] http://gas2.org../2008/06/10/senate-gop-blocks-windfall-profits-tax-on-big-oil/
[19] http://www.fireflyenergy.com/]]></content:encoded>
    <wfw:commentRss>http://gas2.org/2008/07/01/interview-with-mil-ovan-svp-and-co-founder-of-firefly-energy/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
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  <item>
    <title>Eco Friendly Family Vehicles: Urban Legend?</title>
    <link>http://ecochildsplay.com/2008/07/01/eco-friendly-family-vehicles-urban-legend/</link>
    <comments>http://ecochildsplay.com/2008/07/01/eco-friendly-family-vehicles-urban-legend/#comments</comments>
    <pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>Kristen Chase</dc:creator>
    
		<category><![CDATA[Home]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Money]]></category>

    <guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecochildsplay.com/?p=1132</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://ecochildsplay.com/files/2008/06/tahoe.jpg"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-1133" src="http://ecochildsplay.com/files/2008/06/tahoe-300x225.jpg" alt="Tahoe Hybrid" width="300" height="225" /></a>Adding a third child into our family presents a number of physical and emotional challenges &#8212; at least that will be the case unless I can grow an extra set of arms over the next few months. But along another round of sleepless nights, having child #3 definitely puts a strain on the wallet. We&#8217;re not so much worried about the baby gear, since at this point in our parenting lives, we know exactly what we need and what we don&#8217;t. And with plenty of consignment shops, thrift stores, and generous friends, we&#8217;ve already got more clothes and toys than we&#8217;ll probably need.</p>
<p>But nothing puts a hurting on a budget than a <a href="http://motherhooduncensored.typepad.com/reviewsandnews/2008/06/and-baby-makes.html" target="_self">new car</a> and an eco-friendly one at that.</p>
<p>Now don&#8217;t get me wrong. I&#8217;m not saying we need to buy a brand new car. I&#8217;m just saying that we&#8217;re going to need to invest in something big enough to fit two car seats and a booster. Well, legally anyway, because no matter how much my daughter begs me to ride on the roof, I just don&#8217;t foresee that in her future.</p>
<p>And we&#8217;re trying as hard as we can not to have kiss our freedom from car payments good-bye. It certainly helps when we&#8217;re paying $4/gallon for gas.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p>Thanks to the folks at GM and Volvo, I&#8217;ve had the opportunity to try out a few different cars, including <a href="http://www.gmc.com/acadia/acadia/specsStandard.jsp" target="_blank">GM&#8217;s Acadia</a> and <a href="http://www.chevrolet.com/hybrid/" target="_blank">Tahoe Hybrid</a>, and <a href="http://www.volvocars.com/us/models/V70/which/Pages/default.aspx" target="_blank">Volvo&#8217;s V-70 Wagon</a>. But even those fairly reasonably priced cars (okay, except the Hybird &#8212; WHOA!), may not be feasible. Then add in the fact that my husband and I really want something that&#8217;s eco-friendly and doesn&#8217;t have the word &#8220;VAN&#8221; in it and we&#8217;ve got ourselves quite a dilemma.</p>
<p>Of course, doing less driving is always a fantastic option, but considering we live in a suburb of a city where you do really have to drive to get anywhere, it&#8217;s not the greatest one, at least for a mom with three kids under four (wow, that&#8217;s still really hard for me to get my own mind around!).</p>
<p>So aside from continuing to research all our options, I&#8217;ve invited Jody DeVere, the Founder/CEO of <a href="http://www.askpatty.com" target="_self">Ask Patty</a>, to join me on my parenting <a href="http://www.blogtalkradio.com/motherhooduncensored" target="_self">podcast</a> Wednesday, July 2 from 9-9:30pm EST to discuss eco and family friendly cars. Her website offers fantastic resources specific to women and cars, and I&#8217;m sure she&#8217;ll offer a myriad of helpful suggestions.</p>
<p><em>I&#8217;d love to hear from eco-conscious families of five plus &#8212; what car are you driving and what do you think about it? Leave your answer in the comments or share them on the <a href="http://www.blogtalkradio.com/motherhooduncensored" target="_blank">Motherhood Uncensored podcast</a> from 9-9:30pm EST by calling in (646-915-8634) or chatting at <a href="http://www.blogtalkradio.com" target="_self">Blog Talk Radio</a>. </em></p>
<p><strong>More Related Posts on <a href="http://greenoptions.com/tag/cars" target="_self">Cars</a>:</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://sustainablog.org/2008/06/11/pimpin-your-ride-the-green-way/" target="_self">Pimpin&#8217; Your Ride: The Green Way</a></p>
<p><a href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/17/company-turns-familiar-gas-cars-into-electric-vehicles/" target="_self">Company Turns Familiar Gas Cars into Electric Vehicles</a></p>
<p><a href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/27/how-many-hours-do-you-have-to-work-to-fill-your-gas-tank/" target="_self">How Many Hours Do You Have to Work to Fill Your Gas Tank?</a></p>
]]></description>
    <content:encoded><![CDATA[ [1]Adding a third child into our family presents a number of physical and emotional challenges -- at least that will be the case unless I can grow an extra set of arms over the next few months. But along another round of sleepless nights, having child #3 definitely puts a strain on the wallet. We're not so much worried about the baby gear, since at this point in our parenting lives, we know exactly what we need and what we don't. And with plenty of consignment shops, thrift stores, and generous friends, we've already got more clothes and toys than we'll probably need.

But nothing puts a hurting on a budget than a new car [2] and an eco-friendly one at that.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we need to buy a brand new car. I'm just saying that we're going to need to invest in something big enough to fit two car seats and a booster. Well, legally anyway, because no matter how much my daughter begs me to ride on the roof, I just don't foresee that in her future.

And we're trying as hard as we can not to have kiss our freedom from car payments good-bye. It certainly helps when we're paying $4/gallon for gas.



Thanks to the folks at GM and Volvo, I've had the opportunity to try out a few different cars, including GM's Acadia [3] and Tahoe Hybrid [4], and Volvo's V-70 Wagon [5]. But even those fairly reasonably priced cars (okay, except the Hybird -- WHOA!), may not be feasible. Then add in the fact that my husband and I really want something that's eco-friendly and doesn't have the word "VAN" in it and we've got ourselves quite a dilemma.

Of course, doing less driving is always a fantastic option, but considering we live in a suburb of a city where you do really have to drive to get anywhere, it's not the greatest one, at least for a mom with three kids under four (wow, that's still really hard for me to get my own mind around!).

So aside from continuing to research all our options, I've invited Jody DeVere, the Founder/CEO of Ask Patty [6], to join me on my parenting podcast [7] Wednesday, July 2 from 9-9:30pm EST to discuss eco and family friendly cars. Her website offers fantastic resources specific to women and cars, and I'm sure she'll offer a myriad of helpful suggestions.

I'd love to hear from eco-conscious families of five plus -- what car are you driving and what do you think about it? Leave your answer in the comments or share them on the Motherhood Uncensored podcast [8] from 9-9:30pm EST by calling in (646-915-8634) or chatting at Blog Talk Radio [9]. 

More Related Posts on Cars [10]:

Pimpin' Your Ride: The Green Way [11]

Company Turns Familiar Gas Cars into Electric Vehicles [12]

How Many Hours Do You Have to Work to Fill Your Gas Tank? [13]

[1] http://ecochildsplay.com/files/2008/06/tahoe.jpg
[2] http://motherhooduncensored.typepad.com/reviewsandnews/2008/06/and-baby-makes.html
[3] http://www.gmc.com/acadia/acadia/specsStandard.jsp
[4] http://www.chevrolet.com/hybrid/
[5] http://www.volvocars.com/us/models/V70/which/Pages/default.aspx
[6] http://www.askpatty.com
[7] http://www.blogtalkradio.com/motherhooduncensored
[8] http://www.blogtalkradio.com/motherhooduncensored
[9] http://www.blogtalkradio.com
[10] http://greenoptions.com/tag/cars
[11] http://sustainablog.org/2008/06/11/pimpin-your-ride-the-green-way/
[12] http://gas2.org/2008/06/17/company-turns-familiar-gas-cars-into-electric-vehicles/
[13] http://gas2.org/2008/06/27/how-many-hours-do-you-have-to-work-to-fill-your-gas-tank/]]></content:encoded>
    <wfw:commentRss>http://ecochildsplay.com/2008/07/01/eco-friendly-family-vehicles-urban-legend/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
  </item>
  <item>
    <title>Volkswagen to Produce Plug-In Hybrid Electric Cars in 2010</title>
    <link>http://gas2.org/2008/06/30/volkswagen-to-produce-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars-in-2010/</link>
    <comments>http://gas2.org/2008/06/30/volkswagen-to-produce-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars-in-2010/#comments</comments>
    <pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>Andrew Williams</dc:creator>
    
		<category><![CDATA[Electric vehicles (EVs)]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Plug-in hybrid EVs]]></category>

    <guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/?p=658</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/vw_twindrive06.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-659" src="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/vw_twindrive06.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="334" /></a></p>
<p><strong>Hot on the heels of the announcement that <a title="Mercedes electric" href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/23/mercedes-smart-to-sell-electric-cars-in-2010/" target="_self">Mercedes will produce electric cars</a>, comes the news that fellow German manufacturer <a title="vw plans" href="http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/06/vw-rolls-out-a.html" target="_blank">Volkswagen plans to produce a test fleet of plug-in hybrid electric cars by 2010</a>.</strong></p>
<p>A few months ago, to much excitement from the automotive press, the company unveiled a <strong><a title="dieelec golf" href="http://gas2.org/2008/03/03/a-biodiesel-prius-vw-to-release-699-mpg-diesel-hybrid/" target="_blank">diesel-electric Golf</a></strong> but, according to VW chief Martin Winterkorn, &#8220;the future belongs to electric cars.&#8221;  To help in mapping out the road to this electric future, the company have unveiled a plug-in hybrid powertrain, called the <strong>Twin-Drive</strong>, which will make its first appearance in a Golf kitted out with a 122-horsepower diesel engine, twinned with an 82-horsepower electric motor.</p>
<p><!--more-->A key difference between the VW approach and typical hybrids is that instead of the battery providing supplemental power to the combustion engine, the Twin-Drive will work the other way around.  According to Winterkorn, &#8220;here the diesel or gasoline engine supplements the e-motor.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/vw_twindrive05.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-660" src="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/vw_twindrive05.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="334" /></a></p>
<p>The car will use lithium-ion batteries and have a range of 31 miles on purely electric power.  Over the last few months, Volkswagen has invested heavily in li-ion battery technology.  In addition to teaming up with <strong><a title="sanyo" href="http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUST26662320080528" target="_blank">Sanyo in a $769 million dollar development project</a></strong>, the company has also formed the <a title="lib2015" href="http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS124716+12-May-2008+PRN20080512" target="_blank"><strong>Lithium-Ion Battery 2015 Alliance</strong></a> (LIB2015) with Bosch, BASF, Evonik and others, backed up by a €60 million investment from the German government.</p>
<p>Volkwagen says it will have a test-fleet of twenty Twin-Drive Golf&#8217;s on the road in 2010, but there is still no news on plans to ramp-up commercial production.  Given the level of investment being ploughed into the technology, I have a hunch that such an announcement won&#8217;t be too long in coming.</p>
<p><strong>Posts Related to Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong><a title="ethanol" href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/13/prototype-ford-escape-plug-in-hybrid-88-mpg-on-85-ethanol/" target="_self">Prototype Ford Escape Plug-in Hybrid: 88 MPG on 85% Ethanol</a></strong></li>
<li><strong><a title="jetta" href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/16/vw-debuts-tiguan-hymotion-fuel-cell-vehicle-and-2009-clean-diesel-jetta/" target="_self">VW Debuts Tiguan HyMotion Fuel-Cell Vehicle and 2009 Clean Diesel Jetta</a></strong></li>
<li><strong><a title="battery tech" href="http://gas2.org/2008/05/19/snapshot-of-battery-technology-for-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars/" target="_self">Snapshot of Battery Technology for Plug-in Hybrid Electric Cars</a></strong></li>
<li><strong><a title="chevy batteries" href="http://gas2.org/2008/04/10/chevy-volts-lithium-ion-batteries-road-tested-by-months-end/" target="_self">Chevy Volt’s Lithium-Ion Batteries Road Tested By Month’s End</a></strong></li>
<li><strong><a title="power plants" href="http://gas2.org/2008/03/14/plug-in-hybrids-may-require-160-new-power-plants-by-2030-or-none-at-all/" target="_self">Plug-In Hybrids Could Require 160 New Power Plants by 2030 (Or None At All)</a></strong></li>
<li><strong><a title="google" href="http://gas2.org/2008/03/24/google-to-spend-10-million-on-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-project/" target="_self">Google to Spend $10 Million on Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle Project</a></strong></li>
</ul>
<p><em>Image credits - Volkswagen</em></p>
]]></description>
    <content:encoded><![CDATA[ [1]

Hot on the heels of the announcement that Mercedes will produce electric cars [2], comes the news that fellow German manufacturer Volkswagen plans to produce a test fleet of plug-in hybrid electric cars by 2010 [3].

A few months ago, to much excitement from the automotive press, the company unveiled a diesel-electric Golf [4] but, according to VW chief Martin Winterkorn, "the future belongs to electric cars."  To help in mapping out the road to this electric future, the company have unveiled a plug-in hybrid powertrain, called the Twin-Drive, which will make its first appearance in a Golf kitted out with a 122-horsepower diesel engine, twinned with an 82-horsepower electric motor.

A key difference between the VW approach and typical hybrids is that instead of the battery providing supplemental power to the combustion engine, the Twin-Drive will work the other way around.  According to Winterkorn, "here the diesel or gasoline engine supplements the e-motor."

 [5]

The car will use lithium-ion batteries and have a range of 31 miles on purely electric power.  Over the last few months, Volkswagen has invested heavily in li-ion battery technology.  In addition to teaming up with Sanyo in a $769 million dollar development project [6], the company has also formed the Lithium-Ion Battery 2015 Alliance [7] (LIB2015) with Bosch, BASF, Evonik and others, backed up by a €60 million investment from the German government.

Volkwagen says it will have a test-fleet of twenty Twin-Drive Golf's on the road in 2010, but there is still no news on plans to ramp-up commercial production.  Given the level of investment being ploughed into the technology, I have a hunch that such an announcement won't be too long in coming.

Posts Related to Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles:

	Prototype Ford Escape Plug-in Hybrid: 88 MPG on 85% Ethanol [8]
	VW Debuts Tiguan HyMotion Fuel-Cell Vehicle and 2009 Clean Diesel Jetta [9]
	Snapshot of Battery Technology for Plug-in Hybrid Electric Cars [10]
	Chevy Volt’s Lithium-Ion Batteries Road Tested By Month’s End [11]
	Plug-In Hybrids Could Require 160 New Power Plants by 2030 (Or None At All) [12]
	Google to Spend $10 Million on Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle Project [13]

Image credits - Volkswagen

[1] http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/vw_twindrive06.jpg
[2] http://gas2.org/2008/06/23/mercedes-smart-to-sell-electric-cars-in-2010/
[3] http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/06/vw-rolls-out-a.html
[4] http://gas2.org/2008/03/03/a-biodiesel-prius-vw-to-release-699-mpg-diesel-hybrid/
[5] http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/vw_twindrive05.jpg
[6] http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUST26662320080528
[7] http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS124716+12-May-2008+PRN20080512
[8] http://gas2.org/2008/06/13/prototype-ford-escape-plug-in-hybrid-88-mpg-on-85-ethanol/
[9] http://gas2.org/2008/06/16/vw-debuts-tiguan-hymotion-fuel-cell-vehicle-and-2009-clean-diesel-jetta/
[10] http://gas2.org/2008/05/19/snapshot-of-battery-technology-for-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars/
[11] http://gas2.org/2008/04/10/chevy-volts-lithium-ion-batteries-road-tested-by-months-end/
[12] http://gas2.org/2008/03/14/plug-in-hybrids-may-require-160-new-power-plants-by-2030-or-none-at-all/
[13] http://gas2.org/2008/03/24/google-to-spend-10-million-on-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-project/]]></content:encoded>
    <wfw:commentRss>http://gas2.org/2008/06/30/volkswagen-to-produce-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars-in-2010/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
  </item>
  <item>
    <title>Hybrid Fest 2008: July 19th &#38; 20th in Madison, WI</title>
    <link>http://gas2.org/2008/06/27/hybrid-fest-2008-july-19th-20th-in-madison-wi/</link>
    <comments>http://gas2.org/2008/06/27/hybrid-fest-2008-july-19th-20th-in-madison-wi/#comments</comments>
    <pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>Benjamin Jones</dc:creator>
    
		<category><![CDATA[Events]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Technology]]></category>

    <guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/?p=651</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/cimg5308.jpg"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-650" src="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/cimg5308.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="373" /></a></p>
<p>Now that you know when it is and what it&#8217;s called, I&#8217;ll tell you a bit about what it is. Firstly, it&#8217;s a bit of a misnomer. Hybrid Fest isn&#8217;t really all about hybrids. I know this because <a title="Hypermiling &amp; Fuel Economy Tips" href="http://ecomodder.com" target="_self">my website</a> is a sponsor this year, and we&#8217;re definitely not all about hybrids.</p>
<p>So what is HF really? It&#8217;s a get together with tons of green car enthusiasts, including hybrid owners, biodiesel producers, ecomodders, and everyone else. The show will be kicked off early on Friday with a fuel economy competition and then get down and dirty on Saturday and Sunday with speeches, discussions, hybrid test drives, and a whole host of other goodies you can find out about <a href="http://www.hybridfest.com/activities.htm" target="_blank">on the website</a>. HF will also be a time for companies to show off new green tech, including some of the big guns like GM and Toyota, but also many smaller companies working on things like plug-in hybrid conversions.<!--more--></p>
<p>If you live anywhere nearby, it should be great fun, and I highly suggest you come out. Personally, I&#8217;m driving 925 miles from NJ to run a booth and show off my car. If you care to swing by, I&#8217;ll have my <a title="crx gas mileage" href="http://crxmpg.com" target="_blank">heavily modified CRX</a> out for show as well as Ben Nelson&#8217;s DIY <a href="http://www.ecomodder.com/blog/2008/06/24/diy-electric-motorcycle-kicks-butt-blows-up/" target="_self">electric motorcycle</a>. The show was a big success last year, and the plans are even bigger for this go around, so don&#8217;t miss the opportunity to see in real life the kinds of things talked about on gas2.0.</p>
]]></description>
    <content:encoded><![CDATA[ [1]

Now that you know when it is and what it's called, I'll tell you a bit about what it is. Firstly, it's a bit of a misnomer. Hybrid Fest isn't really all about hybrids. I know this because my website [2] is a sponsor this year, and we're definitely not all about hybrids.

So what is HF really? It's a get together with tons of green car enthusiasts, including hybrid owners, biodiesel producers, ecomodders, and everyone else. The show will be kicked off early on Friday with a fuel economy competition and then get down and dirty on Saturday and Sunday with speeches, discussions, hybrid test drives, and a whole host of other goodies you can find out about on the website [3]. HF will also be a time for companies to show off new green tech, including some of the big guns like GM and Toyota, but also many smaller companies working on things like plug-in hybrid conversions.

If you live anywhere nearby, it should be great fun, and I highly suggest you come out. Personally, I'm driving 925 miles from NJ to run a booth and show off my car. If you care to swing by, I'll have my heavily modified CRX [4] out for show as well as Ben Nelson's DIY electric motorcycle [5]. The show was a big success last year, and the plans are even bigger for this go around, so don't miss the opportunity to see in real life the kinds of things talked about on gas2.0.

[1] http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/cimg5308.jpg
[2] http://ecomodder.com
[3] http://www.hybridfest.com/activities.htm
[4] http://crxmpg.com
[5] http://www.ecomodder.com/blog/2008/06/24/diy-electric-motorcycle-kicks-butt-blows-up/]]></content:encoded>
    <wfw:commentRss>http://gas2.org/2008/06/27/hybrid-fest-2008-july-19th-20th-in-madison-wi/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
  </item>
  <item>
    <title>How Many Hours Do You Have to Work to Fill Your Gas Tank?</title>
    <link>http://gas2.org/2008/06/27/how-many-hours-do-you-have-to-work-to-fill-your-gas-tank/</link>
    <comments>http://gas2.org/2008/06/27/how-many-hours-do-you-have-to-work-to-fill-your-gas-tank/#comments</comments>
    <pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>Max Lindberg</dc:creator>
    
		<category><![CDATA[Cars]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Fuel economy]]></category>

    <guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/?p=644</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[<h3 style="text-align: center"><a href="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/gas-pump.jpg"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-646" src="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/gas-pump.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="333" /></a></h3>
<h3 style="text-align: center"><span style="text-decoration: underline">You Might Be Very Surprised<br />
</span></h3>
<p>A few days back I posted a <a href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/20/the-illusion-of-mpg-is-it-really-a-true-measure-of-your-cars-mileage/">You Tube</a> presentation about two professors from Duke University who came up with a different, and in their minds, more accurate way to determine the efficiency of the engine in your vehicle.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s nice to know how many miles per gallon (MPG), or as the profs say, gallons per mile (GPM) your vehicle will get, but there&#8217;s more, much more to that equation.</p>
<p>First of all, you&#8217;re paying a premium for regular gasoline, $4 maybe in excess of $5 a gallon, and you decide to fill it up.  Sticker shock will settle in quickly, but how about this, <strong>how many hours will you have to work in order to pay for that fuel</strong>?<!--more--></p>
<p>CNN has posted a super simple calculator to help you determine how long you&#8217;ll have to work in order to fill the gas tank on your car.  The link is below, along with another link that ties into the overall cost of owning a car, and a chart to see how your vehicle stacks up against the least expensive cars to own, and they aren&#8217;t hybrids.</p>
<h3 style="text-align: center"><span style="text-decoration: underline">How Much is Your Vehicle Costing You Each Day?</span></h3>
<p>Face it, whether moving constantly or sitting in the garage for days on end, your vehicle is costing you money.  Here are the considerations:</p>
<ul>
<li>Depreciation (your vehicle loses value every day)</li>
<li>Financing</li>
<li>Insurance</li>
<li>Taxes &amp; Fees</li>
<li>Maintenance</li>
<li>Repairs</li>
</ul>
<p>The Edmunds Company has posted a great &#8220;True Cost to Own&#8221; (TCO) page that helps determine what your vehicle is costing you over a five-year period, based on being driven an average 15,000 miles a year.  The calculator offers new or used options, for model years 2003 thru 2007.  The link is below, and when you&#8217;ve figured the &#8220;True Cost to Own&#8221; for your vehicle, along with total cash price and the average cost per mile, compare your car with the ones below.</p>
<p>Just remember, all the figures you come up with are averages, and won&#8217;t necessarily be an accurate depiction of your costs.</p>
<h3 style="text-align: center"><span style="text-decoration: underline">What Are the Ten Cheapest Cars to Drive?  They&#8217;re Not Hybrids!</span></h3>
<p>The Edmunds company used their calculator to look at the latest 2008 model vehicles, to see which ones would be the cheapest to own over a five year period.  Surprisingly, there isn&#8217;t a single hybrid in the bunch, as a matter of fact, hybrids didn&#8217;t do all that well.</p>
<p>A quick rundown of the least expensive in order:</p>
<ol>
<li>Chevrolet Aveo 5 Special Value 4dr Hatchback</li>
<li>Hyundai Accent GS2dr Hatchback</li>
<li>Honda Fit 4 dr Hatchback</li>
<li>Toyota Yaris 2dr Hatchback</li>
<li>Honda Civic DX 4dr Sedan</li>
<li>Nissan Versa 1.8 S 4d Hatchback</li>
<li>Mazda MAZDA3 i Sport 4dr Sedan</li>
<li>Kia Rio 4 dr Sedan</li>
<li>Scion xB 4 dr Wagon</li>
<li>Toyota Corolla CE 4dr Sedan</li>
</ol>
<p>The lease expensive to operate in the first year was the Chevrolet Aveo costing $0.427 a mile to operate.</p>
<p>The Toyota came in at $0.468 a mile for the first year, so you can see the margins are small.</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline"><strong>Moving to the Hybrids</strong></span></p>
<p>Same order, least expensive first:</p>
<ol>
<li> Honda Civic Hybrid 4dr Sedan gas/electric hybrid CVT</li>
<li>Toyota Prius Standard 4dr Hatchback gas/electric hybrid CVT</li>
<li>Nissa Altima Hybrid 4dr Sedan gas/electric hybrid CVT</li>
<li>Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid 4dr Sedan gas/electric hybrid 4A</li>
<li>Ford Escape 4dr SUV gas/electric hybrid CVT</li>
<li>Mercury Mariner Hybrid 4dr SUV gas/electric hybrid CVT</li>
<li>Toyota Camry Hybrid 4dr Sedan gas/electric hybrid CVT</li>
<li>Mercury Mariner Hybrid SUV gas/electrc hybrid CVT</li>
<li>Toyota Highlander Hybrid 4dr SUV AWD gas/electric hybrid CVT</li>
<li>Lexus RX 400h 4dr SUV gas/electric hybrid CVT.</li>
</ol>
<p>The Honda Civic Hybrid came in at $.0476 a mile while the last place Lexus RX 400h would cost an estimated $0.897 per mile.</p>
<p>Again, these are estimates based on a system of calculations by the Edmunds Company and explained on their website.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll find the complete totals on the &#8220;Hybrid Vehicles Not Best Value According to Edmunds&#8221; link below.</p>
<h3 style="text-align: center"><span style="text-decoration: underline">So, How Many Hours Do You Have To Work To Own Your Vehicle?</span></h3>
<p>The math should be easy from here, if you work an 8 hour day, 40 hours a week you work <span style="text-decoration: line-through">1080</span> 2080 hours a year.  Average out the total amount of gas you buy for a year, divide by <span style="text-decoration: line-through">1080</span> 2080 and there you have it.  Then add that number to the one you found through the Edmunds calculator and that should give you the total number of hours you need to work to support your car.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/05/29/hours.gallons/index.html">CNN&#8217;s Hours for Gallons Calculator</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.edmunds.com/apps/cto/CTOintroController">The Edmunds Cost to Own Calculator</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&amp;newsId=20080625005404&amp;newsLang=en">Hybrid Vehicles Not Best Value According to Edmunds</a></p>
<p>So there you have it, only you will know exactly how much your vehicle is costing you, and if not, I hope these guides will help you determine your own costs.</p>
<p>Happy motoring!</p>
<p>Some Related Articles:</p>
<p><a href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/25/are-automakers-to-blame-for-consumer-car-buying-trends-auto-alliance-weighs-in/">Are Automakers To Blame For Consumer Car-Buying Trends? Auto Alliance Weighs In</a></p>
<p><a href="http://http://gas2.org/2008/06/26/low-cost-gas-engine-innovation-doubles-fuel-economy/">Low Cost Gas Engine Innovation Doubles Fuel Economy</a></p>
<p><a href="http://http://gas2.org/2008/06/25/high-gas-prices-empty-tanks-are-the-new-black-in-california/">High Gas Prices: Empty Tanks Are the New Black In California</a></p>
<p><a href="http://http://gas2.org/2008/06/13/prototype-ford-escape-plug-in-hybrid-88-mpg-on-85-ethanol/">Prototype Ford Escape Plug-in Hybrid: 88 MPG on 85% Ethanol</a></p>
<p>Image Credit:  http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/gas-pump-71806.jpg</p>
<p style="text-align: left">
]]></description>
    <content:encoded><![CDATA[ [1]
You Might Be Very Surprised

A few days back I posted a You Tube [2] presentation about two professors from Duke University who came up with a different, and in their minds, more accurate way to determine the efficiency of the engine in your vehicle.

It's nice to know how many miles per gallon (MPG), or as the profs say, gallons per mile (GPM) your vehicle will get, but there's more, much more to that equation.

First of all, you're paying a premium for regular gasoline, $4 maybe in excess of $5 a gallon, and you decide to fill it up.  Sticker shock will settle in quickly, but how about this, how many hours will you have to work in order to pay for that fuel?

CNN has posted a super simple calculator to help you determine how long you'll have to work in order to fill the gas tank on your car.  The link is below, along with another link that ties into the overall cost of owning a car, and a chart to see how your vehicle stacks up against the least expensive cars to own, and they aren't hybrids.
How Much is Your Vehicle Costing You Each Day?
Face it, whether moving constantly or sitting in the garage for days on end, your vehicle is costing you money.  Here are the considerations:

	Depreciation (your vehicle loses value every day)
	Financing
	Insurance
	Taxes &#38; Fees
	Maintenance
	Repairs

The Edmunds Company has posted a great "True Cost to Own" (TCO) page that helps determine what your vehicle is costing you over a five-year period, based on being driven an average 15,000 miles a year.  The calculator offers new or used options, for model years 2003 thru 2007.  The link is below, and when you've figured the "True Cost to Own" for your vehicle, along with total cash price and the average cost per mile, compare your car with the ones below.

Just remember, all the figures you come up with are averages, and won't necessarily be an accurate depiction of your costs.
What Are the Ten Cheapest Cars to Drive?  They're Not Hybrids!
The Edmunds company used their calculator to look at the latest 2008 model vehicles, to see which ones would be the cheapest to own over a five year period.  Surprisingly, there isn't a single hybrid in the bunch, as a matter of fact, hybrids didn't do all that well.

A quick rundown of the least expensive in order:

	Chevrolet Aveo 5 Special Value 4dr Hatchback
	Hyundai Accent GS2dr Hatchback
	Honda Fit 4 dr Hatchback
	Toyota Yaris 2dr Hatchback
	Honda Civic DX 4dr Sedan
	Nissan Versa 1.8 S 4d Hatchback
	Mazda MAZDA3 i Sport 4dr Sedan
	Kia Rio 4 dr Sedan
	Scion xB 4 dr Wagon
	Toyota Corolla CE 4dr Sedan

The lease expensive to operate in the first year was the Chevrolet Aveo costing $0.427 a mile to operate.

The Toyota came in at $0.468 a mile for the first year, so you can see the margins are small.

Moving to the Hybrids

Same order, least expensive first:

	 Honda Civic Hybrid 4dr Sedan gas/electric hybrid CVT
	Toyota Prius Standard 4dr Hatchback gas/electric hybrid CVT
	Nissa Altima Hybrid 4dr Sedan gas/electric hybrid CVT
	Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid 4dr Sedan gas/electric hybrid 4A
	Ford Escape 4dr SUV gas/electric hybrid CVT
	Mercury Mariner Hybrid 4dr SUV gas/electric hybrid CVT
	Toyota Camry Hybrid 4dr Sedan gas/electric hybrid CVT
	Mercury Mariner Hybrid SUV gas/electrc hybrid CVT
	Toyota Highlander Hybrid 4dr SUV AWD gas/electric hybrid CVT
	Lexus RX 400h 4dr SUV gas/electric hybrid CVT.

The Honda Civic Hybrid came in at $.0476 a mile while the last place Lexus RX 400h would cost an estimated $0.897 per mile.

Again, these are estimates based on a system of calculations by the Edmunds Company and explained on their website.

You'll find the complete totals on the "Hybrid Vehicles Not Best Value According to Edmunds" link below.
So, How Many Hours Do You Have To Work To Own Your Vehicle?
The math should be easy from here, if you work an 8 hour day, 40 hours a week you work 1080 2080 hours a year.  Average out the total amount of gas you buy for a year, divide by 1080 2080 and there you have it.  Then add that number to the one you found through the Edmunds calculator and that should give you the total number of hours you need to work to support your car.

CNN's Hours for Gallons Calculator [3]

The Edmunds Cost to Own Calculator [4]

Hybrid Vehicles Not Best Value According to Edmunds [5]

So there you have it, only you will know exactly how much your vehicle is costing you, and if not, I hope these guides will help you determine your own costs.

Happy motoring!

Some Related Articles:

Are Automakers To Blame For Consumer Car-Buying Trends? Auto Alliance Weighs In [6]

Low Cost Gas Engine Innovation Doubles Fuel Economy [7]

High Gas Prices: Empty Tanks Are the New Black In California [8]

Prototype Ford Escape Plug-in Hybrid: 88 MPG on 85% Ethanol [9]

Image Credit:  http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/gas-pump-71806.jpg


[1] http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/gas-pump.jpg
[2] http://gas2.org/2008/06/20/the-illusion-of-mpg-is-it-really-a-true-measure-of-your-cars-mileage/
[3] http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/05/29/hours.gallons/index.html
[4] http://www.edmunds.com/apps/cto/CTOintroController
[5] http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&#38;newsId=20080625005404&#38;newsLang=en
[6] http://gas2.org/2008/06/25/are-automakers-to-blame-for-consumer-car-buying-trends-auto-alliance-weighs-in/
[7] http://http://gas2.org/2008/06/26/low-cost-gas-engine-innovation-doubles-fuel-economy/
[8] http://http://gas2.org/2008/06/25/high-gas-prices-empty-tanks-are-the-new-black-in-california/
[9] http://http://gas2.org/2008/06/13/prototype-ford-escape-plug-in-hybrid-88-mpg-on-85-ethanol/]]></content:encoded>
    <wfw:commentRss>http://gas2.org/2008/06/27/how-many-hours-do-you-have-to-work-to-fill-your-gas-tank/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
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    <title>Mindset Six50 Electric Car Mixes Gas, Li-Ion and Solar Power</title>
    <link>http://gas2.org/2008/06/18/mindset-six50-electric-car-mixes-gas-li-ion-and-solar-power/</link>
    <comments>http://gas2.org/2008/06/18/mindset-six50-electric-car-mixes-gas-li-ion-and-solar-power/#comments</comments>
    <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>Andrew Williams</dc:creator>
    
		<category><![CDATA[Electric vehicles (EVs)]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Hybrid-electric EVs]]></category>

    <guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/?p=599</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/mindset.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-600" src="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/mindset.jpg" alt="" width="468" height="183" /></a></p>
<p><strong>New car industry start-up <a title="mindset" href="http://www.mindset.ch/" target="_blank">Mindset</a>, has announced plans to sell a gasoline-electric hybrid next year. The 2+2-seater hybrid, called the Six50, boasts an electric-only range of 100km (62 miles) via a built-in Li-Ion battery. A two-cylinder gasoline motor, which kicks in as a generator as required, boosts the range to 800km (496 miles). Battery charging is further assisted by integrated roof-top solar panels.</strong></p>
<p>The Six50 tag hints at the target weight of 650kg (1430 lbs). However, according to recent reports, the prototype, composed of a plastic body built around an aluminum frame, tips the scales at a still fairly lightweight 800kg. According to Mindset, this means the car can achieve decent levels of performance. The 70kw (95hp) motor should enable speeds of up to 140km/h (75mph) and acceleration from 0-100km/h (0-60mph) in under six seconds.</p>
<p>The <a title="Gunak" href="http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/06/hybrid-former-designer-vw.php" target="_blank">company was established by Marat Gunak</a>, former head of design at Volkswagen, with backing from Swiss billionaire Lorenzo Schmid. According to Gunak, most cars are currently &#8220;too big, too heavy, too expensive,&#8221; a trend that he hopes to help overturn with the Six50.</p>
<p><!--more-->First impressions suggest he might have succeeded in developing a small, lightweight car. However, many potential buyers will need to be persuaded that the price, currently estimated at €31,000 (about $47,900) - and likely to reach nearer €50,000 (about $77,200) by the time the Six50 hits the market - is not &#8220;too expensive.&#8221; For an average buyer, that&#8217;s pretty darn expensive.</p>
<p><strong>Posts related to Hybrid and Electric Vehicles:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a title="toyota" href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/10/toyota-announces-new-516-mile-range-fuel-cellelectric-hybrid/" target="_self">Toyota Announces New 516-Mile Range Fuel-Cell/Electric Hybrid</a></li>
<li><a title="familiar" href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/17/company-turns-familiar-gas-cars-into-electric-vehicles/" target="_self">Company Turns Familiar Gas Cars Into Electric Vehicles</a></li>
<li><a title="prius search" href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/12/first-time-ever-prius-is-most-searched-new-car-on-carscom/" target="_self">First Time Ever: Prius is Most Searched New Car on Cars.com</a></li>
<li><a title="f-250" href="http://gas2.org/2008/06/09/think-electric-cars-are-expensive-try-fords-f-250-full-sized-truck/" target="_self">Think Electric Cars are Expensive? Try Ford&#8217;s F-250 Full-Sized Truck</a></li>
</ul>
<p>Image Credit: Mindset</p>
]]></description>
    <content:encoded><![CDATA[ [1]

New car industry start-up Mindset [2], has announced plans to sell a gasoline-electric hybrid next year. The 2+2-seater hybrid, called the Six50, boasts an electric-only range of 100km (62 miles) via a built-in Li-Ion battery. A two-cylinder gasoline motor, which kicks in as a generator as required, boosts the range to 800km (496 miles). Battery charging is further assisted by integrated roof-top solar panels.

The Six50 tag hints at the target weight of 650kg (1430 lbs). However, according to recent reports, the prototype, composed of a plastic body built around an aluminum frame, tips the scales at a still fairly lightweight 800kg. According to Mindset, this means the car can achieve decent levels of performance. The 70kw (95hp) motor should enable speeds of up to 140km/h (75mph) and acceleration from 0-100km/h (0-60mph) in under six seconds.

The company was established by Marat Gunak [3], former head of design at Volkswagen, with backing from Swiss billionaire Lorenzo Schmid. According to Gunak, most cars are currently "too big, too heavy, too expensive," a trend that he hopes to help overturn with the Six50.

First impressions suggest he might have succeeded in developing a small, lightweight car. However, many potential buyers will need to be persuaded that the price, currently estimated at €31,000 (about $47,900) - and likely to reach nearer €50,000 (about $77,200) by the time the Six50 hits the market - is not "too expensive." For an average buyer, that's pretty darn expensive.

Posts related to Hybrid and Electric Vehicles:

	Toyota Announces New 516-Mile Range Fuel-Cell/Electric Hybrid [4]
	Company Turns Familiar Gas Cars Into Electric Vehicles [5]
	First Time Ever: Prius is Most Searched New Car on Cars.com [6]
	Think Electric Cars are Expensive? Try Ford's F-250 Full-Sized Truck [7]

Image Credit: Mindset

[1] http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/mindset.jpg
[2] http://www.mindset.ch/
[3] http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/06/hybrid-former-designer-vw.php
[4] http://gas2.org/2008/06/10/toyota-announces-new-516-mile-range-fuel-cellelectric-hybrid/
[5] http://gas2.org/2008/06/17/company-turns-familiar-gas-cars-into-electric-vehicles/
[6] http://gas2.org/2008/06/12/first-time-ever-prius-is-most-searched-new-car-on-carscom/
[7] http://gas2.org/2008/06/09/think-electric-cars-are-expensive-try-fords-f-250-full-sized-truck/]]></content:encoded>
    <wfw:commentRss>http://gas2.org/2008/06/18/mindset-six50-electric-car-mixes-gas-li-ion-and-solar-power/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
  </item>
  <item>
    <title>Hydraulic Hybrid Technology Could Rival Batteries</title>
    <link>http://gas2.org/2008/06/13/hydraulic-hybrid-technology-could-rival-batteries/</link>
    <comments>http://gas2.org/2008/06/13/hydraulic-hybrid-technology-could-rival-batteries/#comments</comments>
    <pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 23:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>Andrew Williams</dc:creator>
    
		<category><![CDATA[Carbon Emissions]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Cars]]></category>

    <guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/?p=583</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/artemis-converted-bmw.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-584" src="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/artemis-converted-bmw.jpg" alt="" width="430" height="247" /></a><a title="Plug in link" href="http://gas2.org/2008/05/19/snapshot-of-battery-technology-for-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars/" target="_self">Plug-in hybrid</a>, all-electric or fuel cell? Car-makers are hedging their bets on what will emerge as the next generation engine technology of choice – now it seems another alternative approach could well be set to enter the mix.  Scottish engineering firm <a title="Artemis" href="http://www.artemisip.com/" target="_blank">Artemis Intelligent Power</a> has tested a <a title="hybrid system artemis" href="http://www.artemisip.com/appli_auto_transm.htm" target="_blank">hybrid system</a> that it claims can cut carbon emissions by 30%, with the added advantage that it is better suited to inter-urban journeys than conventional hybrids like the Toyota Prius.</p>
<p>In common with other hybrids, the system employs a regenerative braking system that stores energy as the vehicle slows down, and feeds it back into the engine as it accelerates.  The key innovation is that instead of storing the energy in a battery, the new system stores it in a hydraulic accumulator.<!--more--></p>
<p>According to Artemis, the system, independently tested in a BMW530i prototype, records superior fuel efficiency because it is only a third of the size and weight of a battery hybrid.  The tests also discovered that it doubled fuel efficiency and cut carbon emissions by around a third compared to cars powered by conventional engines.</p>
<p>The compressed-gas technology also beats battery-hybrids at capturing and delivering energy, especially on the open highway.  Since conventional hybrids require frequent braking to capture enough energy for major improvements in fuel efficiency, they have sometimes been criticised for their limited value outside urban settings.</p>
<p>A further environmental advantage is that the Artemis system is mostly made up of benign materials such as aluminium, steel and rubber.  This means that they contain less hazardous chemicals than batteries and are also cheaper to manufacture.</p>
<p>At the moment, Artemis have not announced any plans to bring the technology to the mainstream, but its chances have been given a significant boost following a move by components giant Bosch Rexroth to snap up the licensing rights.  According to Wim Rampen, managing director at Artemis, “with market introduction, it’s Bosch’s territory and commercially sensitive.”  Outside the car industry, an unnamed firm has also bought the rights to use the system in off-road agricultural and construction machinery.</p>
]]></description>
    <content:encoded><![CDATA[ [1]Plug-in hybrid [2], all-electric or fuel cell? Car-makers are hedging their bets on what will emerge as the next generation engine technology of choice – now it seems another alternative approach could well be set to enter the mix.  Scottish engineering firm Artemis Intelligent Power [3] has tested a hybrid system [4] that it claims can cut carbon emissions by 30%, with the added advantage that it is better suited to inter-urban journeys than conventional hybrids like the Toyota Prius.

In common with other hybrids, the system employs a regenerative braking system that stores energy as the vehicle slows down, and feeds it back into the engine as it accelerates.  The key innovation is that instead of storing the energy in a battery, the new system stores it in a hydraulic accumulator.

According to Artemis, the system, independently tested in a BMW530i prototype, records superior fuel efficiency because it is only a third of the size and weight of a battery hybrid.  The tests also discovered that it doubled fuel efficiency and cut carbon emissions by around a third compared to cars powered by conventional engines.

The compressed-gas technology also beats battery-hybrids at capturing and delivering energy, especially on the open highway.  Since conventional hybrids require frequent braking to capture enough energy for major improvements in fuel efficiency, they have sometimes been criticised for their limited value outside urban settings.

A further environmental advantage is that the Artemis system is mostly made up of benign materials such as aluminium, steel and rubber.  This means that they contain less hazardous chemicals than batteries and are also cheaper to manufacture.

At the moment, Artemis have not announced any plans to bring the technology to the mainstream, but its chances have been given a significant boost following a move by components giant Bosch Rexroth to snap up the licensing rights.  According to Wim Rampen, managing director at Artemis, “with market introduction, it’s Bosch’s territory and commercially sensitive.”  Outside the car industry, an unnamed firm has also bought the rights to use the system in off-road agricultural and construction machinery.

[1] http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/artemis-converted-bmw.jpg
[2] http://gas2.org/2008/05/19/snapshot-of-battery-technology-for-plug-in-hybrid-electric-cars/
[3] http://www.artemisip.com/
[4] http://www.artemisip.com/appli_auto_transm.htm]]></content:encoded>
    <wfw:commentRss>http://gas2.org/2008/06/13/hydraulic-hybrid-technology-could-rival-batteries/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
  </item>
  <item>
    <title>Prototype Ford Escape Plug-in Hybrid: 88 MPG on 85% Ethanol</title>
    <link>http://gas2.org/2008/06/13/prototype-ford-escape-plug-in-hybrid-88-mpg-on-85-ethanol/</link>
    <comments>http://gas2.org/2008/06/13/prototype-ford-escape-plug-in-hybrid-88-mpg-on-85-ethanol/#comments</comments>
    <pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>Nick Chambers</dc:creator>
    
		<category><![CDATA[Ethanol]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Plug-in hybrid EVs]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[cellulosic ethanol]]></category>

    <guid isPermaLink="false">http://gas2.org/?p=581</guid>
    <description><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-582" style="vertical-align: top" src="http://gas2.org/files/2008/06/escape_phev.jpg" alt="Ford Escape Flex-Fuel PHEV " width="500" height="300" /></p>
<h3 style="text-align: left"> First Flex-Fuel Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle</h3>
<p>As part of a push by the US Department of Energy (DOE) to make plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) cost competitive with other cars by 2014, <a href="http://www.ford.com/about-ford/news-announcements/press-releases/press-releases-detail/pr-ford-motor-company-delivers-28424" ta